Jack Foster's training

Amazing stuff Kim! Thanks. I have never been to New Zeland, but plan to make it there one day. It seems like a runner's paradise the way you describe it!

Allow me to burden you with some more questioning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems his system was having no system. Running by how he felt rather than to some pre-scripted training regimen. I'm just curious as to what kind of effort he did those 2 and 3 hour hilly runs at. You mention that no one could keep up with him on those runs so I'm assuming the pace was good, but I'm really trying to gage the effort. Did he start off slow and pick it up at the end? etc. Thanks.

I got to run with Jack Foster once, in 1976, when I was 16.

After the Montreal Olympics, Jack was wending his way across the States,

and he somehow ended up running a 10 mile race in Huntington Beach.

The course was out and back twice on the bike path by the beach,

so Jack went by three times, all alone in front.

My running group was the Palos Verdes Breakfast Club (Orville Atkins from several other threads is a founding member, and they still run/walk on Sundays). Someone in the club knew someone who knew Jack, and a few days after the race, Jack joined us for a midweek run in Palos Verdes (on the coast, just south of LA).

I remember it very well. It was a beautiful sunny day, and maybe 20 of us started off laughing and scratching, as usual. Our route descended several hundred feet toward Malaga Cove, and when we started climbing back up, it was suddenly just Jack and me.

I had read Jack's book, and knew about his running environs in NZ, so I took him up all of my favorite trails and hills. One part was called the "fire trail", where you sometimes had to stop for peacocks, but I don't think we saw any. Then there were some very steep dirt hills, nose to the ground steep, and we had great fun charging (in a manner of speaking) up those.

I had also gathered from his book that Jack liked to run at a hearty pace, and I figured his hearty was beyond me, so I ran my own hearty pace - vigorous but not pushing - and Jack just ran whatever pace I ran, maybe 6:30's on the flatter parts. I was in great shape at the time, having just run 53 something at the 10 miler (now I wonder if it was short, but I took it as official back then). It was one of those rare runs where you feel really fit and you're just cruising. And here you are running with Jack Foster. After 33 years of doing it, I have a lot of running memories, and that run is pretty much tops for me.

I don't remember at all what we talked about during the run, or even if we talked much. I only recall that afterwards he said it was about his usual training pace, and that I had a future. Ah, well.

And yes, he wore Tiger Marathons with no socks.

Anyone have a copy of 'Tale of the Ancient Marathoner' they would sell?

Regarding shoes, Rich is right. Jack ran in very thin Tigers.

He loved them. At his funeral eceryone that owned a pair wore them.

Those shoes were ideal for the type of running he did over country. Because he ran in nothing else. He was obviously conditioned to it.

As for his longer runs. Yes ! they were far more "Steady" than his mid week ones. But even that is hard on sheep country. You can be running along quite happily at say seven minute miles then you have to ascend a steep hill. Jack just kept running the same pace !!!. Not quite the same on the downhill. He had such a relaxed form that he just let himself go and just ran the downhills according to the contour of the land. You did not see him "brake"to slow down. He seemed at one with the land.

Because he was able to relax so well on the Steep hills he was able to do that on the Road as well. Hence the good marathons. he could run well on the track but did not seem to have quite the same "relaxed' look. I feel the best runs on the track that I witnessed were a 10 k early in 1972 where he ran 28:46 behind Brian Rose (Also one of our best Cross Country runners) , the 13:56 5k on a grass Track at Tauranga in early 1973.

His best of course was the 30k World Record solo run in the middle of a Winter.

I also feel his best Road race was the Onehunga to Auckland where he killed an outstanding field. Dropping in a 4:20 mile at mile 6 to kill what was left of any opposition.

As I have said in another post. I was there wallowing in his wake !

Some more thoughts. Regarding his book. VERY rare. I understand it is fetching $150 in the US at present on e bay.

Jack was a prolific writer and left huge amount of manuscript in boxes.

Recently I spoke to one of the "old hands" and one of Jack's closest friends about a re release of the Book.

One of Jack's sons had got up at his funeral and said they would look at re releasing the book plus updates to when he finished "competitive" running (1984.

Dennis said he was not sure but he knew they were working on it.

More thoughts. BPD you say we have running paradise here. You are dead right.

Yesterday when I mentioned I was going with a bunch of 800m runners into the forest. Well, after the first 2k where we left "civilisation" (ie a car park) we saw only one other hunan being over the next 15k and that was a fellow runner.

I took the guys I was with over Forestry roads that I first ran with Jack 35 years ago. Very little has changed although there is another crop of trees growing.

Arthur Lydiard stated some years ago that we had the best distance running Training in the World here.

Interestingly, Athletics NZ is holding a Distance Runners High Performance Camp here as we speak.

Nick Willis is also looking at coming here to do some Training. You name it we have got it (except Altitude !)

$150? Crap. I found mine at a big Flea Market. I think I lost it though. If I find it I'll give it to someone. It's all of 100 pages long. It's mostly just about the different marathons he ran and runners he ran with and against. Good read, but I don't think it would be worth $150.

Alan

Reeder -What a great story! I'm moving to the LA area at the end of this summer and can't wait to do some real hill running. Thanks for the post!

That's nuts! Dropping a 4:20 on the field after 6!!? Obviously Jack could have run a much faster mile pr had he trained for it and had a few goes in competition.

I find it absolutely amazing how much he was able to accomplish despite getting a late start and coaching himself. I mean, how did he know how to train and do things the right way from the start?

When Jack started running there was a bunch of guys running who were training to Arthur's schedules and had some good ideas. None were top runners. But there was one guy who was head and shoulders above the others heads. His name was Dave Heine (A 4:05 miler). Dave took Jack on many runs and for a number of years Jack could not touch Dave in a Race.

Dave was and still is one of the top Civil Engineers (Motorways etc) in this country so moved on from Rotorua. From those early days Jack developed a system that suited him.

I see. Lydiard's influence at some level. The reason I'm being such a pest about this is I'm becoming frustrated with my own training. ( Heartrate monitors and schedules and a base. It goes on and on) I'm thinking of ditching the heartrate monitor and all of the scientific information overload and doing something revolutionary. Running strictly by feel! I envision Jack as a guy who went with the flow so to speak. I think there's something to be learned from such a simple approach, paticularly in this age of information. Run how you feel, wear simple footwear, run hard. Is it that simple? Please tell me it is!

Hey MR!

I ran that Huntington Beach 10 miler too. If I remember correctly the 1st 1/4 of the race was straight out on the top, then back on the lower dirt road, then repeat.

Going out the 2nd time a friend of mine (Bart Coventry) said "Hey there's the leader, Jack Foster!". I looked down and there he was with his combination very serious yet at the same time absolutely totally unconcerned look on his face. The next runners were 2 to 3 minutes back and these were very good Southern California competitors.

It was an honor to see him running, especially the amazing way that he did.

Yes. Just go have fun. Push yourself and enjoy it all. What's it all about if not enjoyment?

Can anyone post a sample "typical" week of running for Jack???

THANKS

As Rich says go out and enjoy. Run as you feel. If you run hard one day take it easy the next.

I would be careful of the simple footwear unless you can train on Natural surfaces.

I will put the sample weeks from his book up. But I haven't had time. I'll have to type the whole thing in. Keep the thread alive so I don't forget.

Yeah, I've got to stay off the road more. Thanks for permission to just run like a kid again - Kim, HRE

Rich, Hodgie an posted this on a previous Jack thread

From "Tale of the Ancient Marathoner" World Publications November 1974

John Charles (Jack) Foster: Roturua, NZ (Roturua Harrier Club). 5'8", 140 pounds. Born May 23, 1932, at Liverpool, England. Married, four children. Occupation: clerk. Began running in 1965 at age 32. Self-coached.

Best times: 880 yds-2:01.2 (72); mile-4:19.8(68); 3000m-8:33 (73); 5000m-13:56 (73); 10,000m-28:46 (72); 15,000m-43:58 (73); 10m-48:22 (71); 15m-1:13:47 (71); 25k-1:16:29 (71); 30k-1:32:48 (71); 20m-1:39:14 (71) World Track Best. Marathon-2:11:18 (at age 41)

Daily running (don't like the word "training!") Four weeks prior to the 20 mile WR in August 1971.

July 18-AM, 40 min. jog in track suit(cold); PM 1,3/4 hours country(hard at it).

July 19-25 min. jog in track suit.

July 20-one hour, country, very hilly (brisk pace felt good).

July 21-horse track, seven miles including miles of 4:41,4:37,4:40, six minute jogs between (cold night).

July 22-80 min., country (worked hard, not fast but bloody hilly; cold night again)

July 23-easy jog, 30 min. (felt poor)

July 24-jog 15 min.,2mile time trial, easy 9:30, jog

Weeks Total: about 75 miles

July 25-2.5 hours, mostly XC and bush tracks (felt poor, no "sting" but nice running.

July 26-no run, too tired (or lazy)

July 27-one hour, country, hilly (ran hard)

July 28-horse track, six miles including 4:40, 4:39, 4:39, jog six minutes between each.

July 29-one hour country (ran easy, didn't try)

July 30-three mile easy jog

July 31-Provincial XC Championships; ran hard from the front the whole way; hilly course soft going, cool, no wind.

Weeks Total: about 65 miles

Aug. 1-20 miles on road, 2:03 (blisters slowed me, nice day)

Aug. 2-no run (car broke down worked late on it).

Aug. 3-80 min. in forest and hills (worked hard at it, really going up steep bits)

Aug. 4-horse track, seven miles including three at 4:51, jogging others (freezing rain and strong wind).

Aug. 5-16 plus miles on road, 1:30 (dead in both senses of the word, cold showers)

Aug. 6-three mile easy jog.

Aug. 7-AM five mile jog; PM 10 miles on horse track, four fast (no time), four slow, two jog.

Weeks Total: about 75 miles

Aug. 8-Bush road, 2:10 (one really big hill, finished tired, cool and showery)

Aug. 9-three mile jog (felt lousy stomach upset)

Aug. 10-no run (only to & from the toilet)

Aug. 11-horse track, seven miles including 4:41,4:41,4:56 (knackered!).

Aug. 12-1:15, country (legs very heavy, fed up!)

Aug. 13-nine miles, road, 51 min. (steady run)

Aug. 14-three mile jog (felt OK tonight)

Aug. 15-20 miles, Hamilton Stadium (80 bloody laps, must be stupid!

three NZ records, 15 m, 25km, 39km,; world best for 20; not bad for an old bugger).

Total: 80 miles 8 days.

verbatim from diary.

Met Jack and Neil Cusack back in 1975,they literally had just finished the LA marathon on the track at UCLA. Jack was wearing Obhori's with the tongue ripped out and had holes punched for ventilation, went right home and did the same to my jayhawks. As a high schooler I was in awe of these two. They were gracious enough in their fatigue to talk to me in detail about their training, all I ever expected was "run miles kid." To this day I appreciate their gift and generosity