Is Said Aouita the greatest 800m to 10000m runner ever?

Coevett wrote:

Avermaet wrote:

Why didn't Coe move up to the 5000m after 1984?

He could have done well in the 1988 Olympics.

He did intend to but injured his back in the summer of 85. After that he gave up the idea but not exactly at what point.

I wonder if Coe could run a 13 min 5000m...

Avermaet wrote:

Coevett wrote:

He did intend to but injured his back in the summer of 85. After that he gave up the idea but not exactly at what point.

I wonder if Coe could run a 13 min 5000m...

Are you semi-sarcastically referring to his pb of 14 minutes? I think he only ever ran one or two for his club as little more than early season jogs. In those same type of races he would run 1:49 for an 800m and then later in the season a 1:41 or 1:42 WR. Having said that, I'm not sure what Coe's potential was at 5000m. However, after spending the 84/85 winter training for a move up and then running the 800m faster than ever early season, his father did predict that he would be smashing the 1500m/Mile WR that year. Unfortunately, he had his problems with his back, and 85 belonged to Cram and Aouita

Perhaps it was getting smacked by Cram in the Mile in 85 that made Coe stick to the 800/1500 hoping to get revenge on him in 86 and maybe his WRs back from him and Aouita.

No sarcasm.

I remember reading Coe destroyed a few 5000m runners in their training session.

He definitely had potential if he trained specifically for it.

Clip of Sebastian Coe praising Said Aouita's versatility.

Stoch wrote:

Clip of Sebastian Coe praising Said Aouita's versatility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXvPLZ2veQ

Starts off by saying that Aouita 'breaks all the rules'.

Man, we talk about El G not being out of breath in any of his races, but I don't think I've ever seen a sprinter have as much energy after a 100m as Aouita after his 2000m WR.

RuleBreaker wrote:

Stoch wrote:

Clip of Sebastian Coe praising Said Aouita's versatility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXvPLZ2veQ

Starts off by saying that Aouita 'breaks all the rules'.

Man, we talk about El G not being out of breath in any of his races, but I don't think I've ever seen a sprinter have as much energy after a 100m as Aouita after his 2000m WR.

Ever heard of slow-twitch and fast-twitch muscles?

SlowFast wrote:

RuleBreaker wrote:

Starts off by saying that Aouita 'breaks all the rules'.

Man, we talk about El G not being out of breath in any of his races, but I don't think I've ever seen a sprinter have as much energy after a 100m as Aouita after his 2000m WR.

Ever heard of slow-twitch and fast-twitch muscles?

Oh yea, I forgot - Aouita was the only runner in history to have world elite fast twitch and slow twitch, enabling him not only to perform at elite level from 800m to 10000m, but also to show potential for both the long jump and high jump at the end of a world record 2000m run.

Compare with Cram at the end of his 2000m WR. Obviously Cram was short in the fast twitch department, despite having an 800m pb 1 1/2 seconds better than Aouita's.

Here's Crammy -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1xbm9gK5Hc

Coevett wrote:

Here's Crammy -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1xbm9gK5Hc

Nice video.

Cram looked exhausted.

Several runners have run faster at all distances from 1,500m to 10,000 and won more gold medals

Others ran much faster at 3000m - 10000m and won many more golds. Farah was faster at 1500m as well

So say compare Mo to SA

800m slower (never ran an 800m at his peak he'd still be slower than SA though)

1500m faster

3000m slower

2 mile faster

5000m faster

10000m faster

You are also conveniently missing out the marathon and just going on times and skipping the fact others won many more world gold / OG medals and did not duck the opposition in their main event

Farah Faster

Do the Same with other runners like KB

Factor in that SA was a miler when he ducked Coe & Cram in 84 1500m. Back then top runners only turned to 5000m if they had no speed or were getting older. The 1500m was the blue riband event much more than today

I doubt if he would have run the 800m any faster at any other time in his career. Arguably he was at his peak in 88 (until he got injured in Seoul), and that was the year he'd spent training for the 800m in Seoul. If you think his peak was perhaps 85, then I doubt he could have ran the 800m faster than he did in 88 as he was a 1500/5000m then, and if he did train for the 800m that year, he would have ran slower for the 5K and perhaps the 1500/Mile, so we wouldn't say that was his 'peak'.

People seem to forget that he only won two bronze medals outside of the 5000m, which as you correctly point out, was much weaker in those days for the reasons you stated. People also claim that he 'would have won gold in the 800m in Seoul if he hadn't been injured', but if Coe, Cruz, Elliot, Cram hadn't been injured themselves they all would have had a much better shot at gold than him. It's just that they were all injured before the Games.

Killy wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Here's Crammy -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1xbm9gK5Hc

Nice video.

Cram looked exhausted.

And he was probably right at the peak of his powers around the time of that race. He also said that it was the hardest of his WRs and that he had the utomost respect for John Walker for having run such a difficult record to break.

It is a fair point that Farah has run faster times.

But the main difference is that Aouita's times in 1980's were either world records or close to being a world record.

For the modern era like today, Farah is not even close to any of the world records. I think he holds the 2 mile indoor world record, that's it.

That might be true, because he was the only runner ranked No.1 in 800, 1500, 5000 and 10000m, but other greats like Kenenisa, Geb or Kipchoge also had a great range from 1500 to marathon. For Geb and Kenny B. i think they were capable of sub 3:30 1500.

People are also throwing names such as Choge or Lagat, but in comparison with previous - they are second-tier athletes (no WRs, no Olympic golds).

Someone said Webb - but he had only one good season and is barely third-thier athlete.

I'll tell ya that you all forgot the man who had perhaps even greater range than Aouita and that was Kip Keino. Like Aouita, he went down from contesting 10k at the '68 Olympics to steeple and even 800m in '72.

Apart from his WRs at 3 and 5k in '65, his legendary 1500m gold in Mexico that is still the greatest Oly performance in 1500m final, three CG golds, he run 28:06 10k just before the Games - third fastest ever for the distance, still 27 secs behind Clarke's WR.

In '72, just before the Olympics he ran 800m PR of 1:46.4 - only 2.1 seconds behind existing WR and than won another Olympic gold in 3000msc, missing the WR by 1.6 secs in a tactical final.

If you translate his performances to year 2020 his times would be abnormal

Look at the line -

800m - 1:43.0

1500m - 3:27.8

mile - 3:45.1 (run 3.53.1 in altitude race in Kenya on cinders)

3000m - 7:20.6

5000m - 12:43

10000m - 26:38

AND

steeplechase - 7:55.2

That was Kip from 1965 to 1972.

Sadly, there's no runner nearly capable of that today.

Said88 is gone, DeanoUK is gone, Coevett only cares about this if Coe or Ovett can be GOAT, a ridiculous claim at 5000m. And Trackbot is gone too. That leaves me the winner of the thread by default.

And 800+ GOAT Choge punctuated things by running two sub 60 half marathons. Neither Aouita nor Coe could have got anywhere near it. Sub 1:45 and sub 60 BOTH? Who could possibly have such incredible range? Choge, that's who.

/thread

Bad Wigins wrote:

Said88 is gone, DeanoUK is gone, Coevett only cares about this if Coe or Ovett can be GOAT, a ridiculous claim at 5000m. And Trackbot is gone too. That leaves me the winner of the thread by default.

And 800+ GOAT Choge punctuated things by running two sub 60 half marathons. Neither Aouita nor Coe could have got anywhere near it. Sub 1:45 and sub 60 BOTH? Who could possibly have such incredible range? Choge, that's who.

/thread

Sorry, but - wasted talent. Not improved since 19.

O. Schniederjans wrote:

Aouita won medals in the major international championships from the 800m, 1500m, 3000m and 5000m.

He is the only man in history to run the 800 m under 1:44, the 1500 m under 3:30, the 3000 m under 7:30 and the 5000 m under 13:00.

Also beat Alberto Cova over 10000m and has a PB under 27:30 and even ran the 3000m steeplechase at an international level.

Does anyone even come close to his achievements post-war?

Really tough to compare Choge, Coe, Cram, and or Mo to Aouita. More realistically the only comparison is between Coe and Cram and only for 800-2000m. Neither Coe nor Cram was able to run fast over 2000m due to limited training mileage capabilities. Both tried but couldn't stay healthy. Coe and Cram's strength was 800-1500m whereas Aouita was 1500-5000m. Aouita could have run a much faster 5000m and 10000m if he trained more than 70-80mi per week. Aouita never ran high mileage in training due to the fact that he never really wanted to and believed that he was a true 800-1500m runner and only ran longer races because he won. In Seoul (1988) he admittingly stated that he was running the 800m because he believed it was always his best event and never really dedicated himself to it. Had he not been injured prior to the games he would've won. In the end, given the era, he competed in (the 1980s) where no one raced multiple distances outside their specialties in major competitions and won combined with multiple WR's, Aouita was a true pioneer and showed an amazing range thus It's safe to say that he is truly the G.O.A.T

"Go Run One"

Bad Wigins wrote:

Said88 is gone, DeanoUK is gone, Coevett only cares about this if Coe or Ovett can be GOAT, a ridiculous claim at 5000m. And Trackbot is gone too. That leaves me the winner of the thread by default.

And 800+ GOAT Choge punctuated things by running two sub 60 half marathons. Neither Aouita nor Coe could have got anywhere near it. Sub 1:45 and sub 60 BOTH? Who could possibly have such incredible range? Choge, that's who.

/thread

Hey Mr. Bad Wigins.......I win the thread!!!

One cannot argue about his achievements but I've always wondered about the methods used as he was very secretive.