Harvard Takes Another Hit - From a Coach on Staff

beck.... wrote:

This is a post by someone trying to rationalize their inept coaching ability. respect is earned and coaches need to realize that just as athletes do. Too many inept coaches out there who can't get it done and can't get through to the athletes, so they blame them.

Sorry, good coaches don't make excuses or issue ultimatums, they get it done. Time for you to be done.

get off my lawn wrote:

Does your parents have to earn your respect? Kids use to just respect adults and now you have adults saying adults must earn the respect of kids. Insane. What happened to the baseline level of respect that all kids had for adults? Guess that must be earned to.

I hope the administration is looking at this.

get off my lawn wrote:

Oh and i guess your boss has to earn your respect as well right? Or do you do what your boss says or get fired? No earned respect there. You are setting up kids to rebel against authority and in fairy land thats fine but in corporate america that doesnt work. I think that if you have the best of intentions for your athletes and you know your leading them in the right direction you dont have a problem with with saying do it my way or dont run for my team.

Authority, to give unwelcome back rubs and butt pats?

No coach has the right to abuse young women, certainly not in that manner.

I know the rest of the internet operates in extremes but i don't. Use common sense. So you honestly think a coach is sitting on here saying that its ok to do those things? Make a good point instead of taking the easy way out and taking one part of my statement and make it my entire statement. We all know that respect authority only pertains to athletic and academic endeavors. Not some creepy coach thats inappropriately touching athletes.

Respecting authority has nothing to do with it.

The coach does NOT have the right to abuse young women, and either do you.

2 questions:

A: Did you read the article?

B: Have you ever competed in division 1 track?

A volunteer coach says that part of the reason for reporting the head coach and other assistants is because they made athletes run hurt. Umm yea, thats division 1 sports. The coach made athletes go on diets. Umm yea, once again thats division 1 sports.

Please try to live in reality here and not fiction. I've been told about athletes that the day of conference were told that if you don't score x-amount of point your scholarship would be taken. That sure does sound like emotional abuse right? Scholarships are held over kids heads everyday. Sounds like emotional abuse right? Coaches take scholarships away from one kid and gives them to another. More emotional abuse. Coaches test body fat percentages weekly, more and more emotional abuse.

get off my lawn wrote:

2 questions:

A: Did you read the article?

B: Have you ever competed in division 1 track?

A volunteer coach says that part of the reason for reporting the head coach and other assistants is because they made athletes run hurt. Umm yea, thats division 1 sports. The coach made athletes go on diets. Umm yea, once again thats division 1 sports.

Please try to live in reality here and not fiction. I've been told about athletes that the day of conference were told that if you don't score x-amount of point your scholarship would be taken. That sure does sound like emotional abuse right? Scholarships are held over kids heads everyday. Sounds like emotional abuse right? Coaches take scholarships away from one kid and gives them to another. More emotional abuse. Coaches test body fat percentages weekly, more and more emotional abuse.

That is the problem, some turd of an adult can't get their athletes to run well, so they hold a (gun to their head) a threat of losing a scholarship that the same coach awarded the athlete. Making athletes run hurt and causing lifelong problems is not the way Div. 1 sports should operate.

This is Div. 1, not professional sports. If you consider this Ok, you are a complete fool. These coaches need to be removed immediately.

+1 for the sick trigger warning reference, bro. Am I the only one here who thinks women should be fully capable of not breaking down mentally if a coach makes a passive comment about weight? We need to be raising stronger women, not shielding them from any passing whiff of discomfort. I guess it's a damn good thing men for the most part take care of all of the most dangerous jobs in the world, wouldn't want a firefighter having an emotional breakdown when she's sent into the burning building. I know you're going to call me a sexist, which is great, but if you actually listen to my message I'm saying stop coddling them because I believe they're capable of strength, we're just depriving them of the opportunity for strength when we act like we need to protect them from what amounts to about a 1/10 on the adversity scale. I'd make the argument that anyone who doesn't agree with this is the sexist because you're basically saying they can't handle it.

Again, please lets start raising women that don't spiral out of control on a whim. Unless she was already bordering on being unhealthy, the answer is 'yes'. If she took it too far she can blame herself and/or her parents, not the coach.

No, I don't. And 'paying attention' to statistics is not going to reduce anything. That's the problem, you're probably some facebook warrior that likes and shares the race/gender article du jour but fails to realize that causation is more important that correlation. Women make less money, we must be sexist - until you look at the details behind why men make more. Blacks more often shot by police, police must be racist - until you look at why. But you can keep citing statistics that are the result of actions of the 'victim' all you want. Keep cultivating that victim mentality, see how it works out for you and whoever you're trying to protect. I have a different plan that involves telling women to actively pursue higher paying careers, negotiate harder for pay increases, take less time off IF the goal is to make more money. I'd also tell black men 18-30 that if you don't want to be shot by police, don't be a criminal, we can reduce 99+% of all police shootings, black or white if everyone just stopped being criminals. But that's just me being racist.

If you want to make abuse a spectrum, which I actually agree with, then this barely registering on the abuse-ometer. You're trying pretty damn hard to equate this to the coach beating the team to a bloody pulp on a regular basis. Advice: if everything is a 10/10, then nothing is a 10/10. Let's try to look at this on realistic terms.

Some people can deal with it, some people can't. I'd argue that if you can't then you should have your scholarship taken away. Speaking as a guy who ran hurt all the time, all the way to some quite respectable accomplishments.

elbatata wrote:

Herein lies the problem:

1. Distance running does not smile upon those who are heavier than necessary. Even people who don't run can see this.

2. "Necessary" body-fat levels vary from one person to the next and the difference is significant between those who can stay healthy while being very lean versus those who need more fat to stay healthy. For instance, I would break down, get sick, etc. if I went below 8-9% for more than a few weeks when I was competing seriously, but I knew other guys that could be 5-6% year round with no problems.

3. Women do not want to be babied, nor should they. They don't want to be told half-truths or lies simply because they are females, which is understandable.

So how does a coach have a healthy conversation about this with females who ask about weight?

Coaches shouldn't have that conversation at all. If only you'd read Lauren's article, you'd have known that...

'The International Olympic Committee recommends that a “coach should not pressure an athlete to lose weight” nor attempt to set an athlete’s weight. Athletes should be referred to professional dieticians and nutritionists. Yet contrary to these recommendations, members of the coaching staff actively discredit the Athletic Department’s dietician, insisting on personally being the source of nutritional guidance for their athletes.'[/quote]

It sounds like you might prefer female athletes not have a coach at all, but instead a team of specialists in every area of life that is the supposed authority on that particular subject because they have been given a certificate.

Athlete asks coach their opinion about what running shoes might suit them best, "There's a podiatrist in town you could go ask."

Athlete asks coach whether certain sunscreens might impede perspiration, "There's a dermatologist in town you could go ask."

Athlete asks coach how much water they ought to be drinking and wonders if they are getting enough protein, "There's a nutritionist in town, but make sure you cross-reference whatever they tell you with a dietician as well."

Athlete asks coach how to do a stretch properly, "There's a good yoga class across town you could go check out."

Athlete asks coach when they should start warming up before a race, "Verkoshansky had some good ideas about that, check out his books."

Athlete finally asks coach why they won't answer any of their questions directly anymore, "I'm a middle-aged white guy without a college degree. I'm no longer allowed to."

Why do you assume they were "passive comments"? These girls can handle that and much, much more! If THESE girls came to the breaking point then you know something was very, very wrong! These girls can kick ass, but even then there comes a breaking point.

Leave it to these entitled Harvard women to throw a fit over nothing. Ridiculous.

M64 wrote:

Why do you assume they were "passive comments"? These girls can handle that and much, much more! If THESE girls came to the breaking point then you know something was very, very wrong! These girls can kick ass, but even then there comes a breaking point.

I've stated multiple times I'm not assuming anything, but I know how issues like this are generally escalating these days (being blown way out of proportion) and that it very much seems like this is the case. This (passive comments thing) was a reference to "Coach" writing: "Even seemingly passive or loss advice can trigger an athlete to lose too much weight" to which I reply "WHY?" Why is anyone so weak that a passive comment can cause them to harm themselves?

I can only assume by your comment that you know for 100% sure that this coach was actively pursuing/shaming/whatever these girls into unhealthy eating and training habits. Clearly they are super duper strong and had reached their breaking point and that's why this is an issue. Incredibly resilient female athletes were being berated, threatened, and abused to the point that they could no longer take it. Is that your case?

Time for a group hug people!

Wait, what? That's not OK anymore?

It's sexual assault is what it is.

That's right. There are girls who have graduated a while ago and are still be treated by doctors. Seems like you think these girls are crying over shin splints. There are long term effects from this kind of abuse on the body. But I'm sure you know better.

...being treated

I've got long-term injuries from college training, what's your point? It was worth it to me, if it wasn't worth it to them then they shouldn't have done it.

I don't know what's funnier, the coach's name or a thread this long on some Baby Conference non-scholarship program.

Clearly they didn't know it would turn out like this, otherwise I'm sure they wouldn't have been part of this team. Don't be ignorant. I'm sorry for your arthritis, or whatever ailment you suffer from. These are a little bit more involved than that. Too many ignorant statements. That's enough for me.