2 more of people wrote:
2 of people wrote:There's 2 Robert johnsons in track, there's 2 mark wetnmores, 2 Daniel Komens, 2 Wilson Kipketers
2 John Smiths
2 Dennis Mitchells
2 Jesse Williams
2 Tony Sandovals
2 Brooks Johnsons
2 Matt Centrowitz's
2 more of people wrote:
2 of people wrote:There's 2 Robert johnsons in track, there's 2 mark wetnmores, 2 Daniel Komens, 2 Wilson Kipketers
2 John Smiths
2 Dennis Mitchells
2 Jesse Williams
2 Tony Sandovals
2 Brooks Johnsons
2 Matt Centrowitz's
This is what got me interested in track in the first place: so many Johnsons.
Gotta bee wrote:
Pen Skee wrote:You would think he would know all the criteria. He did mention that XC wasn't factored into the decision, but he seems to think that the award is given for the most accomplished athlete up to that point, not in the specific year.
Wrong again, he mentioned two specific years that Ches won more titles than the other guy, 4 titles last year other guy three, he left off XC and relays even, same with his freshman year.
Keep in mind that it's not just about the titles, but the way you do it and your AT collegiate rank in the event. I still think Chez should have won freshman and junior year.
I don't think extra stock should go into the outdoor season. Lawson had no indoor season that even remotely resembled a Bowerman winner. Chez split 3:52 after the winning 5k, and then won the 3k with ease. Chez was injured during the beginning over the outdoor season and still came back to win the 5k and 10k (5k in 13:24). Go back and look at Chez vs Lawson last year. You will see that Lawson CLEARLY should have not got the Bowerman. Lawson had a fantastic outdoor national meet, but that's not what the Bowerman is solely based on.
Also, look at Lendore's creds from 2014 vs Chez. Then look at what Kerley has done with the 400m. Yeah, sure you couldn't have predicted Kerley would SMASH a 43.7 3 years later, but Kerley deserves a Bowerman 3x as much as Lendore. Lendore never broke 45 indoors and never split sub 44 on a 4x400m.
Unfortunately since it's a year by year award, and Chez definitely dosent deserve the Bowerman this year, Chez will graduate without having won one. I think the voters held off giving him the award because they figured he would eventually win one in the coming years, but another year isn't guaranteed. Injuries happen and superstars emerge (Kerley, Victor, Coleman, Korir).
3 Robert Johnsons . . . sold his soul to the devil down at the crossroads . . .
The Bowerman organizers by no weighing in XC Appropriately, insure a situation like this could happen - therefore lowering the value and veracity of the award.
Lowered Value wrote:
The Bowerman organizers by no weighing in XC Appropriately, insure a situation like this could happen - therefore lowering the value and veracity of the award.
Well they shouldn't include XC because that gives distance runners an advantage at adding titles to their resume compared to sprinters and field event people. It's not fair Chez gets another opportunity in the fall at winning a title and other event areas in track don't.
They should however, weight indoor and outdoor nationals the same. They obviously didn't do that last year. Like I said earlier, Lawson's indoor season WAS NOT the indoor season of someone who deserves a Bowerman award.
At the SEC Indoor Championships: he was tied for the last qualifier to make it into the 60m final (6.71). He won the LJ with a good jump (8.11m). He didn't even contest the 200m! He got 4th in the 60m!
NCAA Indoor Championships: He BARELY won the LJ (7.98) WELL off the collegiate and meet record. He barely made the 60m finals with a TIME qualifier. He didn't even make nationals in the 200m! And then got 5th in the 60m! 5th!
SEC Outdoor Championships: he made it to the 200m final with a TIME qualifier. Wins the LJ in 7.91. He gets 4th in the 100m and 6th in the 200! Are you kidding me? At the conference meet he didnt even crack top 3 in these events?
NCAA Outdoor Nationals: He was no where near the favorite for the 100m or 200m nor was he slated to make the final in the 200m for Nationals! Now, I'm not going to say he got lucky at nationals because he obviously worked hard to win the 100m and 200m, BUT what performance even remotely indicated he was going to sweep both those events. It's great he won OUTDOOR nationals, but you have to have more than that on your resume.
And then people are going to compare him to GOAT status Jesse Owens because he's the first to pull off the triple since him. Get these 2 out of the same sentence, do you think Owens would have had an indoor nationals and conference meet like what Lawson had? No, he would have dominated.
Now lets look at the collegiate ranks from that year: He was tied for 9th in the 60m dash that year for indoors. He was ranked 1st in the LJ. Again, didn't even run the 200m indoors. Outdoors, he was ranked 2nd in the LJ! He was ranked 8th outdoor in the 100m and 6th in the 200m!
Do you still think he deserved the Bowerman over Cheserek last year?!?
I want to piggy back off of this and make the argument why Chez shouldn't have won a Bowerman. The guys that beat Chez may not have won as many NCAA titles as him, but one could easily make the argument that they were better athletes and deserved to win based how good their performances were in their respective events. Going off of their wikipedia pages, here's what the Bowerman winners who beat Chez did on the world stage WHILE STILL IN COLLEGE or within one year of graduating....
Deon Lenodre (2013-2014)
2012 Olympic BRONZE (4x400)
Marquis Dendy (2014-2015)
2013 Competed at Worlds (long jump)
2015 Competed at Worlds (both the triple and long jump)
2016 World Indoor GOLD
Jarrion Lawson (2012-2013)
2016 Olympics 4th (Long Jump)
Furthermore, Derek Drouin won the Bowerman for the 2012-2013 season and won BRONZE in both the 2012 Olympic and 2013 high jump competitions.
So looking at the last 4 Bowerman winners, ALL of them competed in World Championships/Olympic Games and three of them have won medals. The unifying factor between these four guys is that they were all WORLD CLASS in their events and COMPETING FOR THE PODIUM WHILE STILL IN COLLEGE. Chez not only has never competed at a global championship, but really hasn't put up any times that are competitive at the international level. This is not to diminish how good he is and amazing his NCAA record is, but simply point out that those who beat him were/are better than him and put up better performances at their respective specialized events.
Don't check me on this, but I believe the Bowerman is ONLY based on the collegiate season so international competition while not competing for your college isn't supposed to count. If that wasn't the case then there's a strong argument for Chez not to have one which you have above, but based on collegiate competition alone, Chez should have won in 2014 and 2016.
(this makes sense as the Bowerman is a collegiate award so any credentials should be based solely while having a college jersey on)
Plus, this gives an unfair advantage to sprinters vs distance runners. You develop a lot faster and earlier anaerobically than you do aerobically so college age sprinters should be closer to world class times compared to distance runners. This reflects in international competition.
Tons of sprinters in college are getting IAAF A standards left and right, but how many distance collegians have standards this year? 1500m: Josh Kerr at 3:35.99, no women even have USA A standard. 5000m: Justyn Knight, no women. 10,000m: No one. No Americans at all in the distance events.
This provides a strong argument against not including international competition. Physiologically college aged sprinters are just closer to their peak. You can literally see that the college ranking list relative to the world list gets least impressive the higher the distance.
I see what you're saying, but HAVE we established that only NCAA performances count for the Bowerman? As mentioned before, it's not clear whether this is the case or not. But anyway, your point about the "unfair advantage" for sprinters is counter to your argument because it shows HOW MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE you have to be as a sprinter in order to win. If anything, it show that distance runner HAVE the advantage because the competition is weaker and the performances required to win are at a lower level!
For another point of comparison, I want to point out the Rupp and Levins, both previous Bowerman winners, were both Olympians in college (Levins was the summer he graduated, but for all intents and purposes was in college) and ran 27:33 and 27:27 in the 10k, respectively. Not world beaters, but world class none the less. Chez's PR is 28:30, and while we're all pretty sure he can run faster, the fact remains he's hasn't (Furthermore, his 5k PR of 13:18 is only worth a 27:52-53 10k, so even that isn't up to the same standards as Rupp and Levins). The performances these guys did in college is along the same lines with the 4 winners I mentioned in the previous post.
Imo Coleman alreday has it locked up
I'm a Ches hater in fact, but honestly you can't dispute the fact of what he's done at the college level and how dominant he's been at, age or whatever else aside.
Winning which is the most important thing in college there's almost no athlete better he doesn't have a single award to go with that, and he definitely deserves at least one.
Gotta bee wrote:
Imo Coleman alreday has it locked up
he doesn't have a single award to go with that, and he definitely deserves at least one.
.....other than 17 national championships and pile of PAC 12 titles?
Athletes’ performances during the NCAA indoor track & field and outdoor track & field seasons shall be considered. An athlete need not have competed in both seasons to be eligible for the award.
Only performances from the NCAA indoor track & field and outdoor track & field seasons of the year in which the award is given should be considered. For example, performances from the 2009 outdoor track & field season should not be considered for the 2010 award.
Performances that occur outside the NCAA seasons of indoor track & field and outdoor track & field should not be considered. The performance window for the purposes of The Bowerman runs from December 1 of the preceding year through the respective division’s NCAA Outdoor Track & Field Championships in the year in which the award is given (e.g. 2010).
Performances achieved while competing unattached during the indoor track & field or outdoor track & field seasons should not be considered, unless the athlete is competing on a national team at a competition that occurs during The Bowerman performance window (e.g. Indoor Track & Field World Championships).
Performances achieved in cross country, or in any sport other than indoor track & field and outdoor track & field, should not be considered.
Robert Johnson also refers to an oxymoron regarding Cheserek and the Bowerman.
Robert Johnson is a moron, and he'd do well to look up oxymoron in the dictionary. F'ing puppet coach and a child.
The Bowerman has already lost some of its luster given past selections - imho. I do however, think there is a case to give Ches the award this year given his 3:52 indoor mile NCAA record (and in the award ceremony they could surely note his 12 NCAA T&F titles and his overall 17 NCAA titles).
To be kind, some of the past Bowerman selections have been headscratchers, to say the least. I assume the Bowerman selection is made by a committee, and I'm guessing more committee members have a bias toward the sprints. However, they have to be careful, or the Bowerman will turn into a sports version of the Nobel Peace Prize (which lost what little cred it had when it was given to Obama before he even entered office).
In order for the Bowerman to mimic the Nobel (via the early award to Obama), the Bowerman this year would have to be awarded to Sydney McLaughlin or Reed Brown.
To add to this... Chez was clearly better than any other distance runner and was uncontested.
Lawson on the other hand did get lucky, if Mitchell-Blake wouldn't have gotten hurt in the 4x1 at nationals and could have contested the 100 and 200, Lawson wouldn't have won both, possibly neither. Certainly not the 200.