NY Times Article on Nike Oregon Project implicates Ritz and Farah

One of he worst aspects of a board like this is someone posting like you...

Fact: Just because you or someone else posts it here, or reads it here doesn't make it true. Numerous reports have shown that not all NOP athletes have been on thyroid medication.

As Magness (a thyroid patient) wrote there is a lot of controversy and debate on how different doctors diagnose what is a thyroid disorder.

As in most of sports many organizations have preferred go to specialists. If I had a top rated doctor I believed in, I probably wouldn't switch.

I know some people readcand then write things that have never been reported as proven or true.

Let's just stop that, shall we? It muddies the waters and is irresponsible to all involved.

Guessing wrote:

Or Ritz is no longer sponsored by Nike so he testifies against them - it's all in the timing....

No, it's all in the NIKE contract ...

And MLB earns a lot more than 5 times running by way of ticket sales and merchandise sales

PR spin wrote:

Not totally, she was pretty dominant in college and made 2012 OT after. And put up a decent fight last year at an old age. She ran for Salazar during her prime age and after had a kid- which usually makes people less serious.

I'd agree more if she hadn't gone to Usada while still a Nike athlete making Olympic teams. But you are clearly a Nike/cap/Paul moser guy.

Borrowed time wrote:

Goucher benefited from Salazar tremendously. She was an also ran before Salazar and after Salazar. It just seemed convenient for her to tell all publicly when her career was done.

Did she not wait until she turned down her last Nike offer...and then she and Adam got together with Steve Magness and jerked themselves all into a froth and then made that pathetic documentary that sure as heck seems like a bunch of running babies crying about their careers ending and the sour grapes of disgruntled former employees??

If there's one thing Nike screwed up on it could be the kind of incoming training NBA and NFL players get about how to be a pro, and that it doesn't last forever?

Sure, if you are AS or Joanie, you won big things that helped put Nike on the map, you're going to be NIKE for life.

Getting a contract or job w Nike doesn't mean you are set for life.

If any of these "whistle blowing" athletes wanted to be considered respectable, they would have done their "whistle blowing" before the lost contracts or had careers trail off.

I'm sure a lot of others when they heard about the documentary, these headlines hit, were expecting to find incidents of actual banned drugs.

All in all it sounds like USADA is on a fishing expedition.

As another poster implied, it's unlikely to go anywhere due to TX legal respect for medical records privacy, which is probably as it should be.

It seems like AS is guilty of having a rough personality, for sure.

All in all the whole laundry airing just makes Runner's seem... Weird.

Few are surprised by that.

Is this the draft USADA complaint found by Fancy Bears? I found it odd that they happened to get that document. If so, it's a draft not even

submitted to court so it may not be entirely accurate. Plus, the pleading is inherently argumentative so it's not like a report.

If USADA has something, then take action. Most of us won't lose sleep over it. If not, USADA keep testing and be vigilant.

Otherwise, this seems like the same issue timed for release before USA's again. It seems like someone keeps pushing this story out.

I'm not going to bother reading through nine pages of what I already know consists largely of mindless of repetitious bleating by credulous dullards (most of whom will not have read more than four lines of the NY Times article) interspersed with game efforts at rational posting. So I can only hope that someone else has already pointed this out:

9.67 grams of L-carnitine was administered to Ritz in a 60-minute period.

There is no plausible way this much L-carnitine could be dissolved in sufficiently little water to create a solution consisting of no more than 50 ml (about 50 grams) total that could then be injected into a human being without serious consequences. You would have better luck trying to run maple syrup into someone's antecubital vein.

The likelihood that Salazar has not merely toed the line but egregiously stepped over it (e.g., with testosterone) has been beaten to death on these boards, yet there remain people parochial-minded enough to conclude that if Salazar is known to be operating in the grey area, then he's not also stepping well beyond it. This is as farcical as slotting criminals and politicians into "incompetent" or "shady" categories, as if someone cannot be both.

But that other stuff aside, this, here, is a doping violation.

Salazar has long refused to cooperate with investigators, as the article notes. The same goes with everyone else who is still involved in the NOP. In what world does this signal anything besides overy malfeasance?

This is not a hatchet job by the Times, despite its penchant for surprisingly crappy articles despite its glowing reputation in certain segments of the electorate.

The circle of people with incriminating testimony against Salazar continues to expand and now includes not only Magness, the Gouchers, and assorted other players, but also -- however reluctantly -- Ritzenhein and Welling. And this is all independent of the Fancy Bears hacking and Pro Publica reports, which may have accelerated certain aspects of this athletic dramedy but have not otherwise altered its core elements.

I'm no more privy to the work if USADA and the rest of the powers that be than anyone else, but my best guess is that the NOP had its final day in the sun at the 2016 Summer Olympics and, to a lesser extent, the 2017 Boston Marathon, and that this is all soon to unravel, likely with indictments.

It's 1 am but we just received a call from people close to Erdmann. The NY Times has corrected there story. Poor reporting on their part made her look really bad.

Check out the correction from the NY times and the edits in the article.

Correction: May 20, 2017

An earlier version of this article misstated Tara Welling’s response to an interview request. Welling answered questions via email; she did not decline an interview request. The article also misstated the way Ms. Welling delivered her responses. She responded via email; she did not make a statement through her husband.

I don't have the first version of the story but it made it look like Welling told the Times she currently had the most utmost respect for Alberto and yet she was breaking down in tears to USADA, so it made it sound liek she was being dishonest.

INstead, her quote has been changed to clarify that she initially had utmost respect for Alberto (when she first joined the group with the implication being she doesn't now) so she doesn't come across as saying one thing to USADA and one thing to the Times.

wow, just wow on how deep this rabbit hole might go:

"According to the report, Dr. Brown was Salazar’s personal physician and was being paid a monthly retainer to work with the Oregon Project athletes. Ritzenhein said he did not know any of this at the time."

I wonder if Hall, being one of Dr. Brown's patients, knew it. Being on Nike's payroll, Brown may not has been as, ahem, 'forthcoming' in Hall's (an Asics athlete) treatments, eh?

rojo wrote:

I don't have the first version of the story but it made it look like Welling told the Times she currently had the most utmost respect for Alberto and yet she was breaking down in tears to USADA, so it made it sound liek she was being dishonest.

INstead, her quote has been changed to clarify that she initially had utmost respect for Alberto (when she first joined the group with the implication being she doesn't now) so she doesn't come across as saying one thing to USADA and one thing to the Times.

Here is the paragraph pertaining to Welling that wound up changed:

Welling declined an interview request but sent a statement through her husband, a Nike employee. “I had nothing but the utmost respect for Alberto and the staff,” she said. “At this time Usada has not yet been able to share with me the details or evidence that supports these allegations.”

Here's what it looks like now:

In an email, Welling declined to discuss treatments she received under Salazar, citing medical privacy. “I had nothing but the utmost respect for Alberto and the staff,” she said about her arrival with the team in 2012. “At this time Usada has not yet been able to share with me the details or evidence that supports these allegations.”

psych 101 and then some wrote:

Salazar doesn't have to seek attention and Nike already pays him tons. He's still a world class coach.

In terms of ego Salazar is far ahead of any distance coach on the planet.

psych 101 and then some wrote:

.

This is rubbish, Salazar is getting the creme de la creme, pumping millions into them & then the results? Rupp is the only long term athlete he has coached, a silver and bronze (which isn't bad). Centro, the son of the American 5k record holder has done well. But Mo was sub 13 prior to joining NOP and double European champion (and he constitutes 4/5ths of NOPs success). But there is a lot of misses though, more fails then successes. He has access to top US HS and NCAA athletes and did nothing with them, actually many went backwards under his guidance. Most of his programs are borrowed so he isn't cutting edge in that area. He did not take a bunch of hobby joggers to legend status. Personally, the androgel issue will always be more telling when discussing Salazar.

There are not "dozens and dozens" of people on this board who support Salazar and find the allegations to be meaningless. There are 4-5, and they're all Nike employees posting under different names. And even they don't believe what they're writing--they're just being paid to do so.

They're all the same wrote:

There are not "dozens and dozens" of people on this board who support Salazar and find the allegations to be meaningless. There are 4-5, and they're all Nike employees posting under different names. And even they don't believe what they're writing--they're just being paid to do so.

^This. Or the usual trolls.

My biggest issue here is not that Salazar is doping his athletes (as that was obvious since years), but that USADA goes out on a pretend-mission, writes everything down, and then does nothing about it. Since years. Classical cover-up. On the other hand, that is not exactly new either.

Were it not for fancy bears, we'd only have rumors. Now we now about some of Salazar's doping, and that USADA took no action.

Coincidence that Farah's infusions in the UK weren't registered by the Head Medical Doctor of British Athletics - because he was BUSY ??????????

rojo wrote:

Darrington wrote:

. It looks like he was very uncomfortable with Salazar's shenanigans and unlike Kara never publicly bashed anyone. .

I've never understood this logic? Can someone tell me why it's better to be a silent coward than to publicly state how you feel.

I guess I should know as given the fact that at least 25% of LRC hates me - it's clear 1/4th of the population will hate you if they know you are .

Yeah except what did Kara's public statements really accomplish? It looked more like sour grapes than anything after her relationship with Salazar clearly went South​ and her career was mostly over. Dathan could have come forward, yes, but I don't think Kara is the hero you are making her out to be.

Hyperbole much wrote:

These athletes are to blame as well.

Sick of Salazar taking all the blame and these cheating athletes are revered as whistle blowers or even courageous!

Are you sure?

No doubt there are athletes that pursue doping. But, in this case, it's clear the power dynamics are such that Salazar is running a doping program and the athletes don't have a choice.

Among other things is an enormous abuse of power.

Is Ken Goe on Nike payroll?

He LOVES defending anything they do wrong.

NOP will be taken down.....eventually. Mark my words. It will happen. Rupp, Farah, Centor, Salazar, etc.

Dick Vitale wrote:

Speculate much? You (and I) have no idea why Cain left.

And as for Webb, ARE YOU SERIOUS? Although this is also speculation, I would venture to say that it's more likely he was fired because he was performing so poorly.

I heard he felt uncomfortable taking pills. FACT.

Is this the draft pleading! wrote:

Is this the draft USADA complaint found by Fancy Bears? I found it odd that they happened to get that document.

It is a document/complaint USADA filed with the Texas Medical Board.

At this point, I believe they likely could charge Salazar with using a prohibited method.

They could also charge Dr. Brown as an Athlete Support Personnel.

They could also likely charge Ritzenheim, Welling, and other cooperating witnesses. These would all be in line for reduced suspension times, but they would still likely be suspended.

I am sure that their intent is to charge other athletes (Rupp, Farah, Centro, maybe others) and they do not appear to have enough evidence to do that.

Hence, why they are trying to leverage the Texas Medical Board.