How cool is That? Kipchoge went after it and was THIS close!!!!

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  • hwieniawski
    2 years ago 05/06/2017 8:31pm CDT
    re: Yepppppppppp
    Forum Index
    Agreed, let's be honest some of these rules are frankly arbitrary. Someone described it as an "illegal" result?! Please, get an education!

    It was a genuinely incredible "race", essentially becoming one man against time, and while kipchoge failed, he came so much closer than most had expected.

    That said, I'm kind of shocked by how many people didn't think that the optimisation of so many factors could at least bring Kipchoge close. Chances are if you're on letsrun you know how easily the small things early in the 'thon can lead to total disaster in the last 10K, therefore it's not hard to imagine that the pacers, fluids, shoes, etc all could make a significant difference.
    That said, I don't feel that any of those benefits negate the fact that Kipchoge still had to run at that speed for that long. Those last couple miles were so intense, especially when everyone thought he'd be done after 20 miles. His demeanor, his interview, I have to say I have tremendous respect for Kipchoge, even more than before. What a runner
  • cvxxvzc
    2 years ago 05/06/2017 9:07pm CDT
    re: hwieniawski
    Forum Index
    I saw one estimate that cyclists save something like 27% of their energy, another that behind trucks, a car might save 40% of its energy, and a third that the slipstream extends 6x the height of the vehicle in front. They had a tall windscreen with a clock on top of the pace car. If the pace car was 4-5 ft tall, the windscreen was probably another ten feet. That slipstream might extend back more than 70 ft, on this assumption (maybe 6x14=84 ft!--that seems excessive at 13.1 mph), which would, I believe go back over all the pacers and Kipchoge certainly. I really think that Nike knew from the wind tunnel work that this was the only way that they would get him close to 2 on a flat course. Now that he has done it, however, I am convinced that there will be a major, major mental barrier lifted, just as there was after Bannister and after Boston 2011 with the 2:03:02>there will be numerous legal 2:01s and 2:02s in the next few years, and probably even a sub-2:01 legal. Shoe companies might also try to do something like this again next year to go under 2 illegally. Anyway: I'd like to see real calculations on the effects of that actual windscreen because 12k extra of pacers was not enough to account for much of the drop, even if the psychological effects of having people to run with after 30k prevented a big dropoff. And no matter what I have to say that Kipchoge's performance was staggering. Let's say it was 2:03 quality, but as a time trial. That in itself would be awesome.
  • SEDave
    2 years ago 05/06/2017 11:57pm CDT
    re: cvxxvzc
    Forum Index
    Some of it was the even pacing (even if you notice they were a few seconds off here and there. You don't normally having a car pacing you so perfectly. THere were no surges to deal with, no covering a gap, or having to move within the pack. Also the extra zones for drinks/gels, likely helped.

    But yes, I would say the drafting (both from the car and pacers) might have been the biggest factor.
  • doctorj
    registered
    2 years ago 05/07/2017 3:07am CDT
    re: He (Almost) Dit IT)
    Forum Index
    It's nice to see Nike put a lot of $$$ into this project, which by all means was a time trial.

    That said, perhaps if Nike would have set the goal at : First 2:00:00 marathon it would have made more sense. Did they set the goal too high? After all nobody has ever ran close to 2 hours flat until today. (sorry the world record of 2:02:57, those 2 minutes 57 seconds are a lot)

    Speaking of time trials, I think the IAAF should consider a new category for the marathon distance: THE TIME TRIAL for events exclusively using conditions similar than today's.

    Before signing off...anyone here ever saw the movie: "The Games"? 1970. In that movie a sadistic sick coach attempts the unheard: the 2 hour flat marathon by his protégé. I saw that movie in 1976 and laughed at the idea of a 2 hour marathon, which back in the days was the holy grail of long distance running, a dream impossible to achieve...not anymore!

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065757/reviews
  • TESLA
    2 years ago 05/07/2017 3:16am CDT
    re: cvxxvzc
    Forum Index
    cvxxvzc wrote:

    I saw one estimate that cyclists save something like 27% of their energy, another that behind trucks, a car might save 40% of its energy, and a third that the slipstream extends 6x the height of the vehicle in front. They had a tall windscreen with a clock on top of the pace car. If the pace car was 4-5 ft tall, the windscreen was probably another ten feet. That slipstream might extend back more than 70 ft, on this assumption (maybe 6x14=84 ft!--that seems excessive at 13.1 mph), which would, I believe go back over all the pacers and Kipchoge certainly. I really think that Nike knew from the wind tunnel work that this was the only way that they would get him close to 2 on a flat course. Now that he has done it, however, I am convinced that there will be a major, major mental barrier lifted, just as there was after Bannister and after Boston 2011 with the 2:03:02>there will be numerous legal 2:01s and 2:02s in the next few years, and probably even a sub-2:01 legal. Shoe companies might also try to do something like this again next year to go under 2 illegally. Anyway: I'd like to see real calculations on the effects of that actual windscreen because 12k extra of pacers was not enough to account for much of the drop, even if the psychological effects of having people to run with after 30k prevented a big dropoff. And no matter what I have to say that Kipchoge's performance was staggering. Let's say it was 2:03 quality, but as a time trial. That in itself would be awesome.

    A great post. Download an free app from the AppStore called windtunnel and have a quick play. It is using decent physics to visualise but not give numerical results.

    http://www.algorizk.com/windtunnel/features/

    I have been saying for weeks ever since the practise that it is all about the Tesla. I'm sorry I just cannot accept that this is more impressive than kimetto.

    I have a very bad feeling that this is a big Nike magic trick. I would love it if a smart engineering team could actually model this properly.
  • TESLA
    2 years ago 05/07/2017 3:17am CDT
    re: cvxxvzc
    Forum Index
    cvxxvzc wrote:

    I saw one estimate that cyclists save something like 27% of their energy, another that behind trucks, a car might save 40% of its energy, and a third that the slipstream extends 6x the height of the vehicle in front. They had a tall windscreen with a clock on top of the pace car. If the pace car was 4-5 ft tall, the windscreen was probably another ten feet. That slipstream might extend back more than 70 ft, on this assumption (maybe 6x14=84 ft!--that seems excessive at 13.1 mph), which would, I believe go back over all the pacers and Kipchoge certainly. I really think that Nike knew from the wind tunnel work that this was the only way that they would get him close to 2 on a flat course. Now that he has done it, however, I am convinced that there will be a major, major mental barrier lifted, just as there was after Bannister and after Boston 2011 with the 2:03:02>there will be numerous legal 2:01s and 2:02s in the next few years, and probably even a sub-2:01 legal. Shoe companies might also try to do something like this again next year to go under 2 illegally. Anyway: I'd like to see real calculations on the effects of that actual windscreen because 12k extra of pacers was not enough to account for much of the drop, even if the psychological effects of having people to run with after 30k prevented a big dropoff. And no matter what I have to say that Kipchoge's performance was staggering. Let's say it was 2:03 quality, but as a time trial. That in itself would be awesome.

    A great post. Download an free app from the AppStore called windtunnel and have a quick play. It is using decent physics to visualise but not give numerical results.

    http://www.algorizk.com/windtunnel/features/

    I have been saying for weeks ever since the practise that it is all about the Tesla. I'm sorry I just cannot accept that this is more impressive than kimetto.

    I have a very bad feeling that this is a big Nike magic trick. I would love it if a smart engineering team could actually model this properly.
  • TESLA
    2 years ago 05/07/2017 3:19am CDT
    re: TESLA
    Forum Index
    Sorry for the double post. I accidentally clicked on one of those effing adverts, and thought I'd lost my post.
  • well,.
    2 years ago 05/07/2017 5:08am CDT
    re: Toby.,.,,-,.
    Forum Index
    Toby.,.,,-,. wrote:

    Well, this is all cool and stuff, but the real question remains unanswered:
    Can Eliud Kipchoge do a single pullup?

    Is he update?
  • MurderDubs
    2 years ago 05/07/2017 1:42pm CDT
    re: gloria
    Forum Index
    gloria wrote:

    Yes, it was cool that he came close but remember the spirit
    of the marathon is this to deliver a message of an invasion.
    Pheidippides would be disappointment that Eluid ran back
    to place of origin and possibly would've been victim of
    the Persians' attack.
    The race should've been run from Marathon to Athens,
    to give it more credence.

    Kipchoge should've run it with a spear and a truncheon and impaled American savages along the way. Got it.
  • Kl
    2 years ago 05/07/2017 10:59pm CDT
    re: He (Almost) Dit IT)
    Forum Index
    Maybe next time they can run downhill and have cars with giant fans behind them to simulate a 30 mile per hour wind.
  • lolllzz
    2 years ago 05/08/2017 12:34am CDT
    re: He (Almost) Dit IT)
    Forum Index
    This really blows my mind. I didn't even think he'd run sub-2:02, let alone sub-2:00:30. Really, really impressive!

    Thoughts:
    (1.) How much did Kenenisa Bekele just s**t his pants?

    (2.) Alternatively, how empowered might Kenenisa Bekele have just become? Kenenisa's 26:17.53 10k is equivalent to 2:00:58 on Jack Daniels' calculator. If Ken could develop the same consistency as Kipchoge, would he have run sub-1:59 (if paced that way)?

    (3.) That was a really good PR for Tadese. Maybe he'll take on the marathon more seriously for the next few years.

    (4.) I think going out too fast really hurt Desisa. Some guys (myself included, although I'm not even on the same planet as Desisa is with respect to talent) need to slowly ramp up to a certain speed, or have a max. initial speed for a distance that is slower than you might expect given their ability.

    (5.) Thank you, Nike. It needs to be said. Even if Kipchoge gave a press conference tomorrow where he said that the shoes didn't help at all, Nike still put this together, organizing an event that allowed us to see so much of Kipchoge's greatness, and inspired a lot more people to dream or ponder (as the case may be) a lot more.
  • cheater shoes
    2 years ago 05/08/2017 10:49am CDT
    re: Kl
    Forum Index
    Kl wrote:

    Maybe next time they can run downhill and have cars with giant fans behind them to simulate a 30 mile per hour wind.

    I was actually surprised that there was not more manipulation.

    Ideal drafting/pacing, handing bottles, ideal course/weather, and new shoe design?

    Maybe a deeper look at the shoe might reveal something truly performance-enhancing... but the other stuff isn't nearly as blatantly cheating as something like all downhill with a tail wind.