Studly: Meet the world class 800 runner who has twice been 4th at Worlds and runs 105-110 mpw

Johnny Karate wrote:

Polski.

You say Polski, we say

Polska.

Wonder what his favorite polka to run to is.

Domavougi Polka A.K.A. Kiss me polka...polka twist?

Alan

Avocado's Number wrote:

poor training wrote:

170-180km per week? This is why he will never dip into the 1:42s

Yeah, that's almost as much as Jim Ryun was running -- when he was sixteen.

Calculo's law:

"As a LetsRun discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Jim Ryun approaches 1"

Schmiddy wrote:

Reporting live from somewhere wrote:

Here's some research I put together a few months ago regarding athletes of European origin.

https://usrptrack.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/mens-800m.pdf

What kind of list is this without Amel Tuka?

Also, Harald Schmid...20.68 200, and a 1:44.83 800. Is that actually the fastest 200/800 combo of all time?

Tuka has two seasons in which he ran 1:45.90 (2015 and 2016), so he doesn't make the list as five seasons are required. I'm looking at consistency rather than fast times, in other words.

Thanks for the comment.

The top of the list says "Five 1:45.90 seasons minimum". Tuka has only been under 1:45.9 for 2015 and 2016 per iaaf progression so he doesn't qualify:

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/bosnia-herzegovina/amel-tuka-273168

Schmid's combined 200 (20.68) + 800 (1:44.83) total time is 125.51s. That certainly is impressive range, and way better than average 200m ability for a good 800m runner, but Bram Som (#3 on the list) has 21.84+1:43.45 = 125.29

David Rudisha has no official 200m listed but with his 1:40.91 WR he would only need to muster a 24.6s for 200m which he could certainly do given his listed 45.13s 400m PR.

@Reporting live from somewhere wrote: awesome list and data, thanks. a few questions:

- ALP = ? age of lifetime best performance ?

- Why are some ALP's bold?

- Why are some results struck out?

- What is the equivalence of the results along the very top of the page? I only checked it against IAAF scoring tables and that doesn't appear to be the source for comparison.

- is the "No." column the number of sub 1:45.9s?

- did you compile any data for non-European-origin athletes too?

JRinaldi wrote:

Mathews (only one T) has run nearly 2 seconds quicker than Lewandowski over 1500 and will probably run a lot quicker over 1500 in the future than Marcin ever will, so you are talking about a different type of athlete. That said, I can't see either of them passing Rudisha in the last 100m regardless of how much aerobic fitness they have.

Not sure what that has to do with Lewandowski's claims of 30km per day or running a 10.5 100m!

Not a huge amount, but I'm in Oz, and know Mathews (with one t) has been doing a lot of mileage. He did beat Rowe and Ralph.

Thanks for your answer.

Thanks for the compliment.

1. Age of Last (1:45.90 or better) Performance.

2. Bold means they ran 1:45.90 in 2016, ie. still performing at world class.

3. Struck out results mean they don't fit my personal model of the times needed to run 1:45.90 (see the top row in italic).

4. See previous answer :-)

5. Yes.

6. All of my research is on my site. I've included my other men's800m table below.

Phenomenal. Many thanks again, this is informative and interesting to say the least.

He's in South-Africa a lot and although I can't say how correct that number is, I can tell you for a fact that over December/January, if you see him he's running, literately always and it looks like he goes on for hours.

Zuma wrote:

He's in South-Africa a lot and although I can't say how correct that number is, I can tell you for a fact that over December/January, if you see him he's running, literately always and it looks like he goes on for hours.

I know a Polish female 400m relay team member who goes on 10 mile runs in the forest during autumn and has a decent 60m PB too. The Polish system emphasises a base phase before faster work, as detailed in a presentation given in the UK a few years ago.

I'm not arguing for or against a base phase but what has been claimed in the Spikes interview sounds true enough to me.

[quote]did wrote:

Schmid's combined 200 (20.68) + 800 (1:44.83) total time is 125.51s. That certainly is impressive range, and way better than average 200m ability for a good 800m runner, but Bram Som (#3 on the list) has 21.84+1:43.45 = 125.29

Something doesn't seem fair about just adding up the total time. The longer the race, the less seconds or fractions of seconds matter. I would think it's much more impressive of an improvement from someone going from running a 20.50 200 to a 20.00 then a 145.50 runner going down to 145.00.

Here, Schmid's 20.68 is 5.5% better than Som's 21.84, but Som's 800 is ony 2.5% better than Schmid's, and Som's combo is more impressive? Nah.

poor training wrote:

170-180km per week? This is why he will never dip into the 1:42s

170km = just a smidge over 100mpw in case you can't figure it out.

In my opinion it's too many miles for an 800m runner because it increases the risk of injury and burnout yet does not improve performance significantly

unfair wrote:

[quote]did wrote:

Schmid's combined 200 (20.68) + 800 (1:44.83) total time is 125.51s. That certainly is impressive range, and way better than average 200m ability for a good 800m runner, but Bram Som (#3 on the list) has 21.84+1:43.45 = 125.29

Something doesn't seem fair about just adding up the total time. The longer the race, the less seconds or fractions of seconds matter. I would think it's much more impressive of an improvement from someone going from running a 20.50 200 to a 20.00 then a 145.50 runner going down to 145.00.

Here, Schmid's 20.68 is 5.5% better than Som's 21.84, but Som's 800 is ony 2.5% better than Schmid's, and Som's combo is more impressive? Nah.

Easy: Compare 4 * 200 + 800 times.

Schmid: 4 * 20.68 + 1:44.83 = 3:07.55

Som: 4 * 21.84 + 1:43.45 = 3:10.81

Big difference.

I like that:

Coe: 2 x 46.87 + 1:41.73= 3:14.60

Schmid: 2 x 44.92 + 1:44.83 = 3:13.75

but I have a feeling the difference would be even greater if Coe posted a 200 time..

Something does not compute; perhaps he ran 10.5 many years ago, but not while he was running 100+ mpw. 10.5 is a sprinter, 100 mpw and a sub-30 10K is a distance runner. Human muscles aren't built to do both that well.

Very impressed by Schmid's 200m time but 20.68 is not nearly at the same level in the 200m as 1:43.45 is in the 800m. So, Som gets the nod here. Schmid also ran sub 45.

zxczvxcvxzc wrote:

Very impressed by Schmid's 200m time but 20.68 is not nearly at the same level in the 200m as 1:43.45 is in the 800m. So, Som gets the nod here. Schmid also ran sub 45.

Schmid was a hurdler with great speed and endurance.

What is Som's 400m hurdles PB? ;-)

JRinaldi wrote:

You guys are so obsessed with mileage.

There is no way he is running 30km a day (180/6 days = 30) and I'd put the house on him NOT being able to run 10.5

I've seen articles written by his coach that stating his yearly total of 3323km (63km per week) with the highest total in Feb 418km (104km per week). This was from a few years ago and he may have increased his mileage, but I highly doubt he has more than doubled it. If he has, he has wasted his time, as he has only improved 0.12 over 800m for all that effort.

JR

I agree but Lewandowski has been trying to move up to the 1500m remember. He races that a lot these days, including his European indoor title.

Also according to his IAAF profile he ran 10.6 FAT in 2006...

a) "Aerobic fitness" is not synonymous with closing speed in an 800.

b) The world record for 800 on 25 miles / week training is better than the world record for 800 on 100 miles / week training.

c) Som split 45+ (sprint background, not orienteering)

d) You don't even need a 100 miles/week to win Boston.

e) Lydiard = idiocy