My quest for sub 1:50 in the 800m

the kobe of being bad wrote:

boi

Sup boi.

Been running about 45-55mpw the past month. Very slowly working my way up in mileage. Short term goal is sub 16 at a turkey trot assuming it doesn't snow a foot or something.

I'm not 'unfit' right now, just getting into the swing of things. I've been getting in consistent 90+ minute long runs for the first time in a while and my top speed isn't bad as I 'PRd' in a rolling 100m a couple weeks ago with 11.5.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

Been running about 45-55mpw the past month. Very slowly working my way up in mileage. Short term goal is sub 16 at a turkey trot assuming it doesn't snow a foot or something.

I'm not 'unfit' right now, just getting into the swing of things. I've been getting in consistent 90+ minute long runs for the first time in a while and my top speed isn't bad as I 'PRd' in a rolling 100m a couple weeks ago with 11.5.

An impressive 100. Like you said you could keep building your mileage a bit still. When you reach about 100k or 60mpw, during your hard weeks, it's a good amount for an 800m runner who has a nice mix of decent natural speed and endurance. The long runs are very beneficial too. But take the rest days when needed. I wish I would've rested more during my "career". You must work hard but when you're fatigued enough, take the day off, and go easier for a while.

A decent mileage, the consistent long runs, and the top speed already at good level , sounds good. You have the tools needed when it's time to move towards more specific workouts and races. If you have the base and the speed, your 800m specific fitness is easy to build during pre season. Racing from 400m to longer distances during early season is preferable, you'll see the possible weaknesses, while getting nice rust buster races in. Then it's just a matter of finetuning and racing some good hard 800's. But always remember to maintain what you've built.

Thanks! I mean the 100m was just a hand timed sprint at the end of my strides after an easy run, but that's what all of my timed 100s are so it's consistent in terms of timing and conditions. I could probably be doing more top speed and strides / drills. I'm surprised I ran that 11.5 for a 100m because I haven't been great with speed work and mechanics the past couple months. I'm just starting to move into some fartleks and more structured tempos, and will be using the fartleks to get me used to moving into vo2 work in the winter, as I will do most of these fartleks near 'CV' pace (90% vo2 max). I will be sticking with the tempos, long runs and fartleks until after I run the turkey trot 5k, or another race near that time. Then I will have a gauge on my endurance and will start to slowly move into more specific work. Maybe I'll run a time trial of 300-400m on the track to get a gauge of my lower end fitness, too. I will start to update this thread weekly again at the end of the week.

Sounds good, again. One thing I would add during base is some longer (~150's) more anaerobic sprints @ ~90-92% pace, with a long recovery (up to 5min). Although the 100's if done at top speed by multiple times, has almost the same effect.

I have a three month plan for the 400 meter and 800 meter athlete in my book titled the Sprinter's Compendium. The plan used was a major factor in training our state record 4x800. You can get the book at amazon and at my publisher Vervante.

One of the plans we have used is very simple. We rotate between 400 dash centered weeks or days followed by 1600 meter run centered days and weeks. Obviously, the key is what the workouts look like on 400 vs. 1600 focused days.

Ryry wrote:

I have a three month plan for the 400 meter and 800 meter athlete in my book titled the Sprinter's Compendium. The plan used was a major factor in training our state record 4x800. You can get the book at amazon and at my publisher Vervante.

One of the plans we have used is very simple. We rotate between 400 dash centered weeks or days followed by 1600 meter run centered days and weeks. Obviously, the key is what the workouts look like on 400 vs. 1600 focused days.

Variation/rotation is good. And keeping things simple, means that you aren't trying to do all the possible workouts in the world, while training frequently enough to keep the progression going, at intensities that supports the 800m, before the event specific work during pre season.

Long post incoming. Going to post the month of October just so there's some background moving forwards. If you have any questions just let me know.

Week ending in 10/07

Sunday 12.8 miles (7:17). Last mile 6:10

Monday 7 miles (7:42) on the treadmill. Foot and ankle strengthening after

Tuesday AM Fartlek. 8x2min @ 5:50 pace, 1 min @ 7:40 pace

PM 2.5 miles easy (7:15)

Wednesday 8 miles (7:32). Half on trails. Core after.

Thursday Light Progression on the treadmill. 8 miles (6:30). Last 6 miles ~6:20 pace

Friday Off.

Saturday 5.5 miles (7:27). Mostly trails. 5x100m strides after. Rolling start.

13.6, 13.4, 13.2, 14.5, 11.58.

Didn't think I'd run remotely that fast on the last one. I was pushing but it felt slow. Probably had some wind at my back.

Some of the runs this week were done on the treadmill because my foot has been hurting a little but and I wanted to keep

the surface flat.

Weekly mileage: 50.6

.

Week ending in 10/14

Sunday AM 5.5 miles (7:47)

PM 3 miles (7:25) + light lifting

Monday 7.5 miles (7:20)

Tuesday AM 5.5 miles (7:27) on treadmill.

PM 3 miles (7:20)

Wednesday 14.2 miles (6:58). Last two miles 6:18 and 5:24.

Thursday 5.6 miles (7:35)

Friday 8.7 miles steady (6:17). Felt crappy. Didn't hammer, though.

Saturday 3 miles (7:40)

Nothing interesting about this week except for the long run. Cool and kinda rainy, felt good. Still keeping the overall mileage

pretty low.

Weekly mileage: 56

.

Week ending in 10/21

Sunday 8.1 miles (7:13) + drills and strides

Monday 2mi warmup, 4x400m @ 71, 10x150m hills starting at tempo effort cutting down to

mile effort, 4x400m @ 61. 2-2.5min rest for everthing. 2mi cool down.

Tuesday Off.

Wednesday AM 4 miles (7:25) on treadmill. Core after.

PM 5.4 miles (7:29) + more core.

Thursday 3min on, 2.5min off, 2.5min on, 2min off, 2min on, etc down to 30 seconds.

3min: 5:26 pace

2.5min: 5:25 pace

2min: 5:10 pace

1.5min: 5:03 pace

1min: 5:06 pace

0.5min: 4:48 pace

Felt decent. Rest were jogs at 8min pace. ran a 900m loop around a block.

Friday 2 miles (7:30)

Saturday AM 2.5 miles (7:30)

PM 10.5 miles (6:48) with last 5 miles at

6:45, 6:41, 6:23, 6:21, 6:07, 5:46 pace for the last half mile.

Workout Monday was with my old college team and workout Thursday was with the high school team I help coach.

Weekly mileage 49.1

.

Week ending in 10/28

Sunday 7.8 hilly miles (7:31)

Monday 8.2 miles (7:26). Half on trails

Tuesday 1.5mi warmup. 3x2mile tempo with 0.2mile jogging rests.

12:10, 11:52, 11:26. 1mi cool down. + light lifting

Wednesday 8.5 miles (7:38) on trails

Thursday Off.

Friday AM 3.2 miles (7:30)

PM 8.2 miles (7:32)

Saturday AM 3.2 miles (7:30)

PM 5 miles (6:21) on treadmill.

Weekly total 52.7 miles

Going to keep working towards 6 miles of volume for my tempos but working on getting the paces faster and more continuous. The 3x2mile tempo is a good start, though. Will be doing a tempo once a week, a fartlek once a week and a long effort once a week. WIll toss in sprint work when I can.

Week Ending in 11/4:

Sunday 12.6 miles (7:18)

Monday 8 miles (7:28)

Tuesday Fartlek. 10x2min @ 5:30 avg, 1 min jogging rest. 8mi total with wu & cd.

Wednesday 6 miles (7:30) + 4x8sec hill sprints

Thursday Tempo, 3 miles @ 5:52, 2min rest, 1 mi @ 5:49. Wanted to do more volume / cut down more but it was not a good day. Felt really off.

Friday 5 miles (7:20)

Saturday 20 minute tempo (pacing friend) at 5:58 pace + 4x150m controlled in 21.3, 20.1, 19.6, 19.3.

Week total: 57 miles

Not a bad week. Fartlek was good. Kinda tough as the loop had some hills but certainly doable. Tempo didn't go as planned but I still got some work in. The second tempo was just me pacing a friend then making a workout out of it, and I added some comfortable running at 400m date pace (I presume) afterwords. Not difficult by any means, but it felt faster than I would have preferred. Will def. keep up doing the 100s and 150s and get back into comfortable running at 400m pace. Will sprinkle in top speed work and hopefully get back to lifting consistently again, as I have been lacking in that aspect the past few months.

Week Ending in 11/11

Sunday AM 6 miles (7:45). Very rainy. Tired.

PM 3.5 miles (7:20) on the treadmill because it was storming. Little bit of lifting after.

Monday 9.2 miles (6:44). Felt decent.

Tuesday Light Progression. 8 miles (6:20). Last few miles 6:00 pace. Treadmill. Light lifting and core after

Wednesday 8.6 miles (7:35). Partially on trails.

Thursday Long Run. 14 miles (6:47). Last few miles ~6:15 pace uphill. No pressing, felt good.

Friday Hill reps. 4x400m hills, jog back down for rest. 6x200m hills, jog back down for rest.

First 4 were 6:00 pace down to 5:15 pace, then the 200m hills were all at about 4:40 pace, which I'm happy with considering the short rest.

Saturday AM Cheering on some former teammates and friends at their regional meet,

PM 5 miles (7:50)

Week total: 64.3 miles

Not a bad week. I kept up the volume. Not a whole lot of quality this week but I got some decent distance runs in and managed to get in a decent effort with the hills, too. It's starting to get pretty cold here so I'm trying to get used to that a bit. My aim is to try to hold around 60 miles a week for a while, at least until I can get in some more doubles. But I'm happy with the 60min + easy runs and the consistent long runs I've been doing.

That’s actually interesting that I did the same workout as you did a couple of weeks ago: 20min tempo + 4x150

I will say that I did 5:49 pace easily but could only hit 21.5 on my fastest 150.

Do you think that starting lifting and hill sprints could get me from 26.8 to 25.8 for 200m in 4 months?

If you want to improve your 200m also do short (50m) track sprints in spikes.

alabama runner wrote:

That’s actually interesting that I did the same workout as you did a couple of weeks ago: 20min tempo + 4x150

I will say that I did 5:49 pace easily but could only hit 21.5 on my fastest 150.

Do you think that starting lifting and hill sprints could get me from 26.8 to 25.8 for 200m in 4 months?

I think lifting and hill sprints are two of the best things you could be doing to get your 200m time down. Impossible to say if they'll cut down your time that much in that time. Maybe more, maybe less. But if you're consistent with it you'll get faster.

Week Ending in 11/18

Sunday 8.2 miles (7:06). Last mile 5:38.

Monday Off. Planned.

Tuesday 6x1k @ CV pace with 200m jog rest. 4x150m after.

3:25, 3:24, 3:22, 3:23, 3:22, 3:17

20.1, 20.0, 19.9, 20.2

Wednesday 6.8 miles (7:05). Last 2 miles 6:30 and 5:20.

Thursday 20min tempo @ 5:42 pace. Felt smooth during most of the run.

Friday 6.2 miles (7:42)

Saturday 4.8 miles (7:38). Pouring down rain.

Week total 42 miles

I kinda just decided to make this a down week part way through. Felt pretty strong on most of the runs, though. Happy with the CV workout. Those paces felt pretty dang easy. Same with the 20min tempo which I'm usually not very good at.

How are you structuring your season this year? Is there a major race you’re looking towards?

What a hype progression! I just read the entire thread (and the original about the 4:24 mile) and your progression is awesome! I am a high school runner who is alot more distance oriented (i think i could destroy a 10k) and i was wondering if you could say what 1 or 2 things contributed most to your progression from the 203 to 152. What would you recommend to me for gaining raw speed?

(Btw i am in 11th grade currently, pbs in 10th grade were 9:27 for the 3200m and 2:00 for the 800m, i ran a 15:19 in xc this year)

Yes, what Alabama runner said. Do you have a major race scheduled? Scheduling your races allows you to organize and plan your training a lot easier. Let us know.

Also, do you plan on incorporating any sprint training? I don't mean 200s of speed endurance. As in 10m/20m/30m/40m flys.

Hello all,

I've been a little behind in posting on this. I've been working a lot and on top of running I don't have a whole lot of free time. I will update the training for this log tomorrow.

As for a goal race, I don't have one specific one in mind because of my work schedule I'm not 100% sure what days I'll be available that far in advance. I do plan on being in peak fitness from mid April to early May as there are a few different competitive meets I could run during that time frame.

I just started this new job a few weeks ago so I've been trying not to stress about the logistics of what meets to run for the time being, rather, I've just been 'worrying' about being fit and getting in a base.

@Runnerguy315

You have some pretty legit PRs. Keep up what you're doing because it is certainly working.

The two things that I believed helped me were the increase in easy and steady mileage during the summer throughout until the winter. I knew I had natural speed and that endurance was my weak point. It allowed me to recover from hard workouts more easily and helped prepare me for tough speed workouts.

The other thing that I believed helped a lot, and this was more specific to the 800m, was hard strides. 4-6x100m at 400m effort smooth and relaxed I think helped me run those paces more easily. I'd finish up a 9 mile run and then do something like 6x100m in 15, 14, 13.X, 12.X, 12.X, 12.X and just focus on form and being comfortable during each of those strides. Also, things like 2x200m after a tempo with lots of rest helped a lot. It was a little more lactic than you'd prefer to be doing for a base phase, which is why I'd only do 2 or so, and give myself ample rest. I recall one time I just ran a 17:50 5k tempo on the track then 2x200m in 26 and 25, while still focusing on being relaxed.

In short, I think sprinkling on the top speed and 400m paced work helps a lot. Even just twice a week in the form of hard strides and maybe 50m hill sprints is plenty. I also was very consistent with lifting, which I'm sure helped also.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I'd finish up a 9 mile run and then do something like 6x100m in 15, 14, 13.X, 12.X, 12.X, 12.X and just focus on form and being comfortable during each of those strides. Also, things like 2x200m after a tempo with lots of rest helped a lot.

What? Impossible! I'm just kidding, because it's refreshing to read this where you shared an actual experience that in order to improve your speed you CAN mix both, endurance and speed work. I'm sick of this black and white thinking that you should do ONLY sprints when you aim to improve your speed, not even 15-30min easy run afterwards, as someone said once. And to do the 100's AFTER a 9mile run or so; they would jump off from the pants of them and say that you cannot improve your endurance either, because you're sending "mixed signals" to your body! Give me a break... It's good to be more open-minded. Thanks for the update.

Week Ending in 11/25

Sunday 8 miles @ 6:30 pace. Tough loop. Snowing and windy

Monday Off

Tuesday 7.2 miles @ 7:17 pace + 5x60m hill sprints

Wednesday 6 miles @ 7:30 pace

Thursday Turkey trot 5k. PR in 15:49

Friday 10.1 miles @ 7:20 pace

Saturday 8.2 miles @ 7:40 pace

Week total: 48 miles

Except for the 5k, this week was pretty uneventful. The course for the 5k was very flat, but also pretty windy. It was about 25F degrees at the start of the race, so not ideal for fast racing, but no snow, so it could have been worse. I'm racing a 3k here this upcoming saturday then I won' be racing again for at least a month, so I should be able to get in some solid training during this next month, hopefully.