My quest for sub 1:50 in the 800m

Week Ending in 1/11/20

Sunday 10.5 miles @ 6:29 pace. Last 3 miles 6:09, 5:48, 5:45.

Monday 6.3 miles easy + Lifting

Tuesday 8.0 miles easy + 10 X 30s hard, 30s easy after 40 minutes. On sections averaged ~4:40 pace I think

Wednesday Off

Thursday 3xMile, 3x800m on the treadmill. 90s rest for all.5:35, 5:29, 5:19, 2:31, 2:27, 2:23.+ Lifting.

Friday 5 miles of easy running and some striding around (at a high school indoor meet). 

Saturday 7.8 miles easy + strides

Mileage: 46 miles   

Not a bad week. Nothing super high quality, but mainly because I was lazy tuesday and I'm running a race Sunday and didn't want to run 400/800 pace stuff only to race it again sunday. Erring on the side of caution at the moment. Sunday felt aerobically pretty good. Legs were a bit heavy but that's expected. Thursday also felt pretty good.

 Week Ending in 1/18/20

Sunday All-Comer's Meet. 800m in 2:01.7 and 1600m workout in 4:50. Recap below.

Monday 11.9 miles @ 7:34 pace.

Tuesday 5.1 miles easy

Wednesday 15x400m with 200m (1min) jog rest. Avg ~75. + 1x200m in 27.0. + Hurdle Drills

Thursday 7.6 miles easy + Lifting

Friday Treadmill Tempo. 5 miles with splits of 5:52, 5:49, 5:46, 5:42, 5:35. 

Saturday 4.6 miles EZ. 

Mileage: 51.2 miles   

All in all a good week. Sunday's meet was just a for-fun all comer's meet on what is basically a rubber gymnasium floor on which you aren't allowed to have spikes. The track is also 150m enclosed in a relatively narrow tunnel. I wore my NB MD 800s, but I guess the plastic bottom of them when there's not spikes in them was slippery, and when I started the 800m I basically stayed in one spot as my leg pushed off, and I basically had to jog off the line. Because of this, my splits look ridiculous (31.X, 29.X, 29.X, 30.X). I won the race by 15 seconds, and was solo after about 150 meters (spent the first two turns in lane 2). I am very pleased with the result, as I ran the 800m here twice last year and ran 2:06 and 2:04 in both attempts. Two years ago I ran 2:01 low here and ran 4:20 and 1:23 for the mile/600m double two weeks later, so I feel like I'm in a good spot. 

Monday was just a time on feet kind of day. Hammies were sore. Wednesday was way harder than I thought it'd be honestly. I'll chalk it up slightly to general fatigue, but the jogging rests must have been getting to me, because that workout was way tougher than it looks on paper. Friday I just got in a maintenance tempo on the mill. Felt good after about half way. Was initially going to do some hills after but I procrastinated getting to the gym so I just settled for the tempo.

I would like to have gotten some more speed in the past couple weeks, but it is what it is. I plan on extending that 15x400m vo2 type workout to longer reps (~same volume) over the next couple months, but I will likely take out the jogging rest and adjust the rest periods accordingly. As for faster stuff (sub mile pace), that'll be really dependent on the weather over the next couple months, but I will try to prioritize those workouts on the good weather days when possible, as most everything else can be done on treadmills if need be. 

Week Ending in 1/25/20

Sunday 11.7 miles @ 7:43 pace. Cold and Icy

Monday 8.3 miles easy + Lifting

Tuesday Treadmill 5x1200m @ CV + 6x200m4:02, 3:59, 3:56, 3:54, 3:52, 31.8 for all 200s.1min between 1200s, 30s between 200s.

Wednesday 4.9 miles slow

Thursday 6 miles easy + 4x60 hill sprints

Friday 3.4 miles easy + drills and strides

Saturday Edinboro Invite Mile and 400m.4:27.46 for a narrow 2nd place, and a chaotic 53.07 for 2nd place.

Mileage: 48.8 miles   

I'm posting this a few weeks after the fact so not everything is as fresh in my mind as it could be. We had some pretty chilly weather early on in the week. The treadmill 1200s actually felt pretty good, and the 200s were aerobically challenging but 14mph is all the faster the treadmill goes. Friday I was coaching at a high school meet and was on my feet / running around all day so I wasn't sure how I'd feel Saturday.The meet Saturday was on a 236.XX meter track. They ran the mile in lane 4, which made it about 256 meters. I was the fastest seed by a good bit, and sadly ended up in the lead right off the bat, which I am not a fan of. I wasn't sure whether to hammer or kind of chill, so we basically just clicked off 68/69 or so for the first couple 400s, maybe slower, I'm not 100% sure. Then the kid who eventually won took the lead and absolutely hammered. We dropped the field by 15-20 meters in a matter of 10 seconds. I went with him, occasionally losing contact and regaining it. On the last lap I let him get a little too far away. I made up a lot of ground the last 100 meters but it was too little too late. He ended up winning by 0.02 seconds. 3rd place was 7 seconds back I believe.A couple hours late I ran the open 400m. I was the slowest seed in the fast heat and got out off the stagger at about 200m in last. I caught up to the group of 3 guys and two of them went down on the final turn, one of which stumbled into lane 2/3. I slowed up and went out to lane 4 to go around the carnage. I ended up winning the heat because of it but only ran 53.07. Probably had at least another second to grab there. 

    Week Ending in 2/1/20

Sunday 12.9 miles @ 6:59 pace. Started at high 7 and cut down to mid 6 pace by the last third of the run. 

Monday 8.1 miles easy on the treadmill + Lifting

Tuesday 3x(1000m, 600m, 400m). 90s between reps, 2min between sets.(3:10, 1:45, 65)(3:10, 1:45, 65)(3:08, 1:45, 64)

Wednesday 7.1 miles easy

Thursday 6x150m, 2x100m. 3-4min rest between reps.19.2-19.7 for 150s and high 12s for 100s. + Lifting

Friday Off.

Saturday 3200m in 10:30 while pacing a friend in a 5k TT. 8x100m in 14-15 after. 

Mileage: 46.7 miles   

All in all this week was pretty good. Sundays long run had some muddy and slushy roads but was overall pretty nice. Tuesday's workout was a little tough, especially the 600s, but I recovered well between reps. Thursday I honestly felt like crap. Did not feel comfortable running at speeds that should feel easy, but I guess that's something I need to continue to work on. Saturday was kind of an impromptu workout, but it was a solid effort and I got in some smooth strides after. 

    Week Ending in 2/8/20 

Sunday 12.5 miles @ 7:29 pace. Muddy dirt roads in the middle but a nice run overall.

Monday 8.2 miles easy

Tuesday AM 2 miles easy + LiftingPM 3x1000m + 600, 500, 400. 1min between Ks, 3min between shorter reps.3:23, 3:22, 3:23, 1:35, 1:19, 61.

Wednesday 6.3 miles easy

Thursday Treadmill 10x400m with 1min rest.72, 71, 71, 70, 70, 69, 69, 69, 68, 67. 

Friday 5.1 miles easy

Saturday 3.1 miles pre meet. Drills and strides

Mileage: 47.7 miles   

Another solid week. Nothing very impressive, just stringing together some work and trying to lay a foundation. Monday was nice enough for short shorts and t-shirts, so that was cool. Tuesday I held off on going to the track until dark so some of the kids I coach would have people to run with. So the dark track (very little light, only from an adjacent parking lot) made running fast a little interesting. I didn't look at any splits during the reps. I cooked myself a little on the 600m, as I was aiming for closer to 1:38-1:39 with the intention of also doing a 300m. The 500m and 400m were tougher for me than the times would make you think, but it is what it is. A nice solid bit of anaerobic endurance work to bridge the gap. Thursday was just some basic Vo2 type work. Was relegated to the treadmill. Heart rate was certainly pretty high during the reps. On Sunday I'm running (I actually already ran it, but will save the results for the next post) another all-comers meet at the janky gymnasium-tunnel track I ran at about a month ago. So that will be a good test to see if my fitness has improved. *Spoiler* ..It has.

Thanks for following along!

is TAR update?

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've posted. Mostly because of laziness.

On 2/9/20 I ran at the crappy gymnasium track open meet that I ran at a month prior, and shattered my PBs for the track by running 1:58.6 and 53.06 for the 800m and 400m, leading both the whole way and winning by significant margins.

After that I strung together half decent training and ran another race a couple weeks later.

On 2/21/20 I ran an open 800m and ran my 2nd best indoor time of 1:57.6. I was feeling under the weather and if I had not already paid for the race online, I would likely have skipped it and rested. I won the race by 3 seconds and was completely alone after a 58 second opening 400m.

I feel like there was way more time there but it just wasn't a good day for multiple reasons, but regardless I got the W against some D2 kids so that's okay I suppose.

I proceeded to take the next day off as a mini break between indoor and outdoor as this was my last indoor race. I came back to join some friends for an easy long run Sunday and felt pretty bad. I went home and proceeded to throw up, have aches, chills, a fever and trouble sleeping for the next 20 hours. I couldn't keep any food down at all and resorted to eating ice cubes to keep cool and at least get some liquid in me. I took the next two days completely off as I recovered and got back into easy training the rest of that week.

I got back into workouts the next week and actually had some solid and productive workouts, especially a few good aerobic / vo2 type workouts.

The last workout I did was on 3/11/20 and it was just some broken 1ks (600, 1min rest, 400, 2.5min rest) in 1:51 and 68. I tried to do some 600-800m pace 100s after and my hamstring got really tight and uncomfortable. That was sore for a good 3 days but with some consistent rolling out and whatnot it's mostly better.

Since then the whole Coronavirus thing has really escalated, and I'm left without any track meets to do. While some friends have thrown around the idea of doing time trials, this hasn't really interested me. (I have offered to pace anyone though who got their season taken from them). But idk if this whole thing has taken my motivation, or if I'm justified that there'd be no real point in me trying a time trial. Even if I run a 1:55, which seems realistic right now, who cares? I could run faster in a race but I won't be able to find out.

So basically, my plan moving forwards is to go back into a base phase, but take time to really try to build up and be consistent. Work on top end speed and strength, and work on my core and stability so i can try to eliminate niggles I've been battling on an off for years. I didn't really take off any time, but I also didn't finish out the season, and honestly things seem to hurt worse on me when I take time off and start back up. So I'm just going to stick to mostly easy and steady runs, and slowly build up some hill and sprint work. As an 800m guy, my endurance was never my strong suit, but it is something I can significantly improve. I haven't had consistent mileage above ~60mpw in years (although I've had short stretches of it), so getting back to higher mileage is one of my goals.

My other goal is to get some pep back in my step. I have felt flat and struggled to run anything under 800m pace this whole buildup, despite some half decent lifting. I think I need to be a little more consistent year round with the top end and plyometric work like I was the year I ran 1:52.

While I don't have anywhere to lift (the local gym is closed as well as the schools I coach at), I do have some 20lbs dumbells at home, as well as a weight vest and bands, so this gives me a good opportunity to work on my foundation and stability with a wider array of lighter exercises and core work.

I'm not plugging this to get followers (my account is public so you not need to follow or have an account at all), but I'm going to link my strava in case anyone does want to follow along. I will try to keep updating the thread, but obviously sometimes I don't get around to it for a month lol.

If you've made it this far, thanks for following along my journey so far! I ain't stopping anytime soon.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18624776

Week Ending in 3/21/20

Sunday 12.6 miles @ 7:15 pace. Last 1.5 miles 6:23 and 6:04 pace.

Monday 7.1 miles easy on the trails with the lady. 

Tuesday 7.6 miles easy @ 7:20 pace

Wednesday 8 miles @ 6:49 pace

Thursday 5.8 miles easy + 4x10s hill sprints. 

Friday 9.1 miles @ 7:15 pace, last few miles @ 6:45 pace.

Saturday 7.8 miles total @ 6:50 pace. Workout with my buddy. 3 miles @ 6:20 pace + 5x30 seconds at 5:00 pace with 90s rest.

Mileage: 58.2 miles

Felt pretty solid just running some easy mileage with some steady miles and hills mixed in here and there. Going to slowly build up from here mileage-wise. Probably going to try to find a half marathon or similar distance race late summer or early fall if the pandemic slows by then. Along with some road 5ks and what not. Need to start adding in strides more often but I've just been kind of lazy with that lately. But I do plan to keep some form of hill sprints 3-4 times a month. 

Week Ending in  3/28/20

Sunday  12.7 miles @ 7:08 pace. Last 5 miles @ ~6:40 pace.

Monday 8.9 miles @ 7:20 pace.

Tuesday Light Progression. 7 miles @ 6:22 pace.

Splits: 7:13, 6:48, 6:32, 6:20, 6:17, 5:52, 5:35.

Wednesday   7.2 miles @ 7:20 pace

Thursday  7.2 miles total @ 7:15 pace.

4.5 mile warmup, 5x10s hill sprints, 1.5 mile cool down. Some jogging between hills.

Friday  8.2 miles @ 7:25 pace.

Saturday 8.9 miles @ 7:15 pace

Mileage: 60 miles    

Biggest week in probably 60+ months. Mostly easy so it wasn't all that difficult. Legs a little achey as they catch up to the mileage. Hill sprints went well enough and the progression run was unplanned but felt decent. Didn't push it much. Worked 72 hours from Monday-Sunday this past week so I was a little tired from that, but managed to get no less than 7 hours of sleep a night. Schedule should be back to normal between 36 and 48 hours so I'll be able to get solid rest. Plan on getting another week around 60-65 and then taking an easier week around 45 to 50 or so.

Need to start adding in strides too. And core.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

  

Biggest week in probably 6+ months. .

6, not 60 lol

You are really inspiring, i've been following you for the last months

Week Ending in 4/4/20

Sunday   13.2 miles @ 7:34 pace. Had to run through 200m of ankle deep water on a flooded road at about mile 7.5

Monday 8.6 miles @ 7:45 pace + 3 strides

Tuesday Pacing a workout. 2x800m in 2:50, 3x400m in 77, 3x200m in 32.

Wednesday 8.3 miles @ 7:15 pace

Thursday 7 mile progression @ 6:15 pace.Splits: 7:22, 6:41, 6:17, 6:01, 5:57, 5:46, 5:46.

Friday 8.6 miles @ 7:20 pace + 4x60m hill strides. 

Saturday 8 miles @ 7:35 pace.

Mileage: 60.4 miles    

I'm wiring this about a month after the fact, so I don't remember too many details. Pretty sure I felt decent this week. Some minor shin splint pain from the mileage increase, but overall very manageable. 

     Week Ending in 4/11/20

Sunday 4.1 miles @ 7:20 pace

Monday 6 miles @ 6:57 pace

Tuesday 7 miles + 8x90m hills at 800m effort in the middle of the run

Wednesday Off

Thursday  9 miles @ 7:25 pace  

Friday  5.2 miles @ 7:24 pace  

Saturday 5.5 miles @ 7:35 pace

Mileage: 37 miles    

Planned down week. Other than some shin pain everything felt decent this week. Just trying to get consistent and stay healthy. 

     Week Ending in 4/18/20

Sunday 8.7 miles @ 7:22 pace

Monday 6.8 miles @ 7:28 pace

Tuesday 8.1 miles @ 7:20 pace

Wednesday 7.3 mile progression run @ 6:06 pace

Splits: 6:43, 6:24, 6:09, 6:07, 6:06, 5:45, 5:37, 5:31 for the last 0.3.

Thursday 8 miles @ 7:20 pace

Friday 5.1 miles @ 7:32 pace

Saturday 7.2 miles + 6x75m hill sprints

Mileage: 52 miles    

Overall a solid week. Weather was awful, though. Very windy nearly every day, low 40s, and it snowed on me during the progression run. 

     Week Ending in 4/25/20

Sunday 11 miles @ 5:57 paceSplits: 6:21, 5:58, 6:02, 6:04, 5:58, 5:42, 5:54, 5:42, 5:45, 5:52, 5:59

Monday 7.6 miles @ 7:40 pace

Tuesday 6.2 miles @ 7:50 pace

Wednesday 8 miles @ 7:25 pace + 4x10s pickups during the last mile

Thursday 8.3 miles + 6x75m hill sprints

Friday 8.1 miles @ 6:39 pace

Saturday 8 miles @ 7:33 pace

Mileage: 57.4 miles   

I intended on running about 12 miles at like 6:40-6:50 or so pace on that long run but ended up feeling amazing and let it roll and kept things relaxed. All of a sudden I was hitting 5:4Xs. Didn't get remotely hard until I was over an hour. Kept the rest of the week real easy and took care of myself to make sure I recovered well from the effort. I should be switching from night shift to day shift here in a couple of weeks, so once that happens I will be able to easily double 3-4 times a week and add in some biking and whatnot too, so that'll be awesome. Until then I am going to try to remain around 55-60 miles a week in singles. 

Just some friendly thoughts.Your program to me looks like "a guessing one " without necessary basic structure. With a more structured one that only inholds the main factors for the best result you could probably run your 1:50 at 800. You won that 400 race early last year in 53 sec and with more than 2 sec back to next runner, so probably you have a 400 all out at least 51-52 sec and that is enough to run sub 1:50 with a good controled system. Just one more thought; Have you considered to move up in distance? Your speed level should better settle for 1500m and up .

TAR, Thank you for your thread. Keep up the good work. I guess I missed how you resolved your posterior tibial tendon issues. p.s. Quit badmouthing that gym floor/tunnel track.

@JS: I understand you’re trying to help, but if you think my current plan is slightly unstructured then my plan is working. I’m just running, baby. Building up mileage a bit and working on basics like hill sprints and endurance. Once I can switch to a consistent day schedule my productivity will go way up and once I have some races on my plate In the future I’ll get more structured. I’m just trying to work on my endurance mostly. You’re right that at this point I might be better suited to running a mile, which I’m okay with, but I’ll need to build up my threshold work and mileage first.

Also my open 400m PR is 51.6 but I’ve split 49.9 in college on tired legs when I was in1:52 shape.

@ El Cabron: thanks for following along. I still have minor post Tib problems but it hasn’t been bad at all. If I am consistent with single leg strengthening exercises that load the tendon it tends to feel better. I’ve had some minor Achilles problems again but nothing new. This Achilles has been on and off for 4 years.

And don’t get me wrong, I’ll probably keep showing up to that gymnasium track, but I just wanted to get across the fact that it is far from a fast track at those speeds ?

Ok, 146 half miler here. Hard to believe I never ran more than 40 mpw. I started most workouts with a 2 mile warmup then mostly intervals. M 30x200, tues 2x600+6x200, 12x400s on weds, etc. Off season was July-Sept ran maybe 40mpw. Fall was 5x1 mile hill repeats 1xweek, mostly 5-7 mile runs. Intervals started with large volume then faster and fewer v toward end of season . Also ran 46.8 400 though so was more of a 400/800. Really had no coach so probs could have done better with a better base

flyingfrog, 1:46! that is smoking.

what was your in season mileage?

also 30 * 200!? that is 6K with of high quality work?! I have read Donovan Brazier will only do like 2-3k of strength based intervals (800m repeats). What were you, as a 1:46 guy rolling those 200s in? Hopefully low 30s not sub 30. Also how much rest were you doing on each of the interval sessions?

Figured I'd give a quick update:

I got up to consistent 60-ish mile weeks in singles, and early to mid May I finally switched from 12 hour night shifts to day shift, which gives me way more time to double and do other little things.

I had a really good long run of 14.3 miles @ 6:36 pace, and I should have taken a down week after that but I tried to keep it going for one more week, then started having some mid shin pain. I couldn't get the shin pain gone even after a much lower mileage week so I took 6 days off and just did some biking during that time because I was concerned about the potential for a stress fracture.

I got the pain to go away after about 5 days and have been doing more exercises and icing the area. Ran 40 miles last week without issue so hopefully I can keep building back up.

It was the same shin that I have some minor posterior tibial tendonitis for the last 18+ months, though the pain was a bit higher on the shin. It is a good reminder foe me to be consistent with the shin/ankle exercises to kick this thing for good

TAR, college freshman here. just literally read your thread from top to bottom and its all really inspiring stuff. I ran 1:58 my junior year on pretty minimal mileage [30 a week as my "base" 15-18 in seasn] but really stepped up my performance in XC and indoor when I started adding in training similar to yours (though not much CV work) Its crazy what those long tempos do for your strength!! Anyways it was just good to get some confirmation that there's other people out there doing training similar to mine and having success with it. Too bad about outdoor this year but I suppose theres always next year. I guess I just have some questions pertaining to the specifics of your strength regiment as thats the only part of my training that is too much out of my own expertise to figure out on my own. Specific lifts/plyo routines would be greatly appreciated!!

Sorry I haven’t been posting much in here. Been battling shin splints on and off but generally speaking I’m in pretty good shape at the moment. Not sure when there will be races available for me, but the fitness train don’t stop!

I’m glad you got something out of my thread(s)! The long tempos or generally just more volume of what I call ‘aerobic quality’ seems to be the most important aspect for improving for most people. Overall mileage matters, and helps you keep up a higher workload during season, but the aerobic quality is where the real gains are made.

As for strength, Im not quite as knowledgeable on that end but I know enough to get by/coach amateurs and myself on it.

That year I was just generally lifting twice a week over the summer, doing basically a full body lift that was pretty tough twice a week. I’d keep the rep ranges medium to low, since generally speaking medium-high rep ranges will tend to build muscle mass which isn’t necessarily ideal. I’d generally do something like:

Day 1) Bench, Squats, Straight Bar Deadlifts, Incline Bench, Pull-ups, Abs and Hip exercises.

Day 2) Bench, Squats, Hex Bar Deadlifts, Incline Bench, Pull-ups, Abs and Hip exercises.

Rep ranges for the main lifts would generally be something like 8, 6, 5, 4 or similar, increasing in weight each time.

Not much variance, just general work to get overall stronger. Looking back, I’d add in front squats, some overhead squats and just other small variations.

During season we would switch to some more single leg lifts, like Bulgarian split squats, lunges, quarter and half squats, and we would add in hang cleans and overhead lifts. When I was in the thick of outdoor I was only lifting once a week because we were getting destroyed with running workouts and I was trying to run sub 1:55.2 every week and narrowingly missing it, and I wanted to remain somewhat ready for meets, but it obviously seemed to work well.

Another aspect of physical strength or power work was short hill sprints I did periodically throughout the year. Just something short like 6x60m up a medium steepness hill with 2-3min rest. Helps convert your strength into specific running power, as do explosive lifts and plyos like cleans and bounding.

Sorry it’s not a specific guideline. I know a lot more now than I did then, but we’re also not professional sprinters, so getting 90% of the gains from lifting is damn near good enough.

General rule of thumb for lifting progression: build a base with light to medium lifts with medium rep ranges like 4x8. Vary the lifts to just try to get your whole body and core as strong as possible. Start to progress to heavier lifts (safely), and then slowly add in more explosive lifts, like light hang and power cleans, push press, etc. eventually start cutting out the heavy lifting in season and focus more on explosive lifts and plyos.

I’ll throw out another update.

I was running 50mpw or so and getting in decent workouts for most of the fall. Got sick (not covid) mid October and took a few days off. Also crashed my bike in the same week and sprained my wrist lol. I decided to just take the next month or so really easy so I could focus all my mental energy on coaching.

State meet was this last weekend so I’ve got plenty of time now to focus on myself. Managed 45 miles last week and will hopefully be near 50 this week.

The general plan is to just build mileage and do a steady/moderate run 2-3 times a week. It’s looking unlikely that there will be indoor races for unattached athletes to participate in in the area, and maybe not even outdoor, so I’m just going to try to stick with the basics and see what I can build up to. Might end up targeting a spring road race or two just to have something. But either way I still plan on being fit, even if it isn’t quite for a 1:50 800m. My endurance needs work anyways.

I don't see why you would need to build mileage. You can work endurance on the track at more race specific paces.