My quest for sub 1:50 in the 800m

Im in the same shoes, being self coached. You need repeat workouts imho the simpler the sched the better. Figure out a good and simple weekly rotation and repeAT It.

Also stick with simple workouts

5mile tempo, 5x1k, 10x400 things like dat.

Good luck

Pipedre wrote:

Im in the same shoes, being self coached. You need repeat workouts imho the simpler the sched the better. Figure out a good and simple weekly rotation and repeAT It.

Also stick with simple workouts

5mile tempo, 5x1k, 10x400 things like dat.

Good luck

The workouts get simpler as I get into the more specific phases of training, but with aerobic workouts it really doesn't matter whether you're doing 6x1k @ 10k pace with 1min rest or 2, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 2 min on, 1min off @ 10k pace. They will basically accomplish the same thing. If you feel like you need to have exact and very simple workouts, more power to you, you've found what works! But I'd prefer to have a little fun and not make it to monotonous. Not to say it's always 'fancy', I just did a 5 mile tempo the other day lol. But I will likely continue to do the cutdown style workouts, and simply just alter their paces/purposes as I get further into season and get into more specific work.

Hey, I just noticed this post as I was browsing around and I’ll try to give some advice as I ran 1:50 in the 800 last year (now a freshman in college). To give some background I ran 1:59 as a freshman, 1:55 as a sophomore and 1:52 as a junior I ran, it was all done on pretty low mileage (~25). Senior is when I changed my workout style a bit since I really wanted to break 1:50, I would have 2-3 hard workouts every week (depending on whether I raced that weekend or not) that mainly consisted of quality speed work, 8x200 @ 29-30 with 20 seconds rest, 5 minute rest then into a 2x(200,400,200) @ 27,55,27,26,53,26 with 90 seconds in between reps and 7 minutes in between sets. I’d also do 8-10x400 and try to keep everything right at 59-63 with 90 second rest. I’d also throw in some sub race pace work such as 2x(4x200) @ 28,27,26,25:27,26,25,24 with 60s between reps and 4 mins between sets. I just focused on dropping time in workouts every week and I ended up running 1:50 twice in the open 800 and 1:50.1 in a split. I also believe that you have to look at yourself as a runner and understand what type of 800 runner you are, are you more of a strength 800 guy (if so work on footspeed), if you’re more of a speed 800 guy you should up your mileage slightly and adjust some workouts by slowing the pace but adding more reps with less rest. In the end it’s never the same for anyone but I thought I would share some insight having been so close to sub 1:50.

Week Ending in 12/21/19

Sunday 11.2 miles @ 7:15 pace

Monday 7.1 miles @ 7:36 pace

Tuesday 6x1k with 1min rest @ 3:27, 3:25, 3:24, 3:24, 3:24, 3:24.

Wednesday 7.1 miles @ 7:40 pace + Lifting

Thursday 20min WU, 10x300m treadmill hills @ 5:00 pace (5% incline). 1:05 rest.

Friday 7.1 miles @ 7:10 pace

Saturday 6.6 miles @ 7:11 pace

Mileage: 51.5 miles

Kind of a rough week. I was getting over the tail-end of a cold and had a lot of left over congestion. The workouts weren't bad. Honestly the hills were harder than I expected. Only really lifted once because of time constraints and my cold, but oh well. Things have been going quite a bit better this week, but I'll wait until the week is over to post about it. It might not look like much but I'm pretty happy with where I am for this time of year.

Hey my man, I’ve read your logs and I wanted to chime in briefly. I like a lot of what you’re doing, but I feel you’re missing a lot of the faster, race pace or faster stuff.

Now I know(from experience) that comes later in the season but you can do a lot of shorter faster stuff now that won’t be as taxing but will help you build the speed for later in the year when it’s time to do the longer race type efforts in practice. At least once a week you need to be doing some 130-170m efforts at 400m pace or faster. Take the rest of the track to walk recover but run these efforts fast with good form and do as many as you can without making it a hard workout and build up the amount gradually. So I would shoot for 4-6 of them now and try to get to about 10 by the end of indoor season then cut it out.

Then when it’s time to do some fast 300s/400s your body will be able to run them efficiently. You want sub 1:50, do 2x2x400 with 2 min between each and 15 min between sets and try to hit 53-54 for each 400 at the minimum. Do that and you’re ready. I take it your definitely not a 400/800 type so this session will be a great indicator.

Thanks for the input. I did 6x60m sprints on Saturday, 12/14. I try to fit faster stuff in a few times a month but it's tough living in the snow belt (no indoor track access). But you are right that I could include more 400m pace reps.

As for being a 400/800 type or a 800/1500 type, who knows. Naturally I am better at 400/800 than I am at the 1500 and up.

theowoods wrote:

2-3 hard workouts every week (depending on whether I raced that weekend or not) that mainly consisted of quality speed work, 8x200 @ 29-30 with 20 seconds rest, 5 minute rest then into a 2x(200,400,200) @ 27,55,27,26,53,26 with 90 seconds in between reps and 7 minutes in between sets.

I find everything you said to be quite interesting. Thanks much for sharing all the details of your program.

Is there anything you'd change or adjust for the upcoming season?

What's the fastest you've run a 200 recently?

dunes runner wrote:

theowoods wrote:

2-3 hard workouts every week (depending on whether I raced that weekend or not) that mainly consisted of quality speed work, 8x200 @ 29-30 with 20 seconds rest, 5 minute rest then into a 2x(200,400,200) @ 27,55,27,26,53,26 with 90 seconds in between reps and 7 minutes in between sets.

I find everything you said to be quite interesting. Thanks much for sharing all the details of your program.

Is there anything you'd change or adjust for the upcoming season?

I agree. I forgot to reply when I first saw it, but always glad to hear people's training that got them around 1:50.

In Your Shoes wrote:

What's the fastest you've run a 200 recently?

I ran 24.14 on 4/12/19. It was ~30-40min after I ran the 800m, so I do believe I could have run under 24 last year, but not by much. For reference, I also ran 1:55.7 and 51.4 last year during the same outdoor season.

I have no real evidence for this but my coach said I could have probably run 22.8 (which I think is crap) after he watched me come out of blocks during strides the season I ran 1:52. I think ~23.3-23.5 was more likely.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

In Your Shoes wrote:

What's the fastest you've run a 200 recently?

I ran 24.14 on 4/12/19. It was ~30-40min after I ran the 800m, so I do believe I could have run under 24 last year, but not by much. For reference, I also ran 1:55.7 and 51.4 last year during the same outdoor season.

I have no real evidence for this but my coach said I could have probably run 22.8 (which I think is crap) after he watched me come out of blocks during strides the season I ran 1:52. I think ~23.3-23.5 was more likely.

Your training just looked more conducive to what a 800/1500m athlete would do. True 400/800 guys don’t normally train at that high of volume. And for 400/800 Athletes with PBs of 1:50-53 they can typically run in the 22.5-23.0 range for 200m and 48-49 for 400m. I was 8/15 guy myself, but yes the shorter stuff for training always feels better which gives the impression that it’s more your element but that doesn’t mean you’re physiologically a 4/8 guy, maybe psychologically. And of course you can be a true middy and be average at the speed and endurance, but definitely work to be advanced at one or the other it will make a huge difference.

For reference at my best i could clock sub 22 in practice. Now i don’t train and as a decade removed from proper competing but could take a crack at a sub 24 200 being that I still visit the gym often.

Take my word you want to go over 120m-170m very fast during this time of year at least once a week. Don’t do anything hard before it as you want to be fresh and have great speed mechanics and quick strong strides. Learn to do this while staying completely relaxed up top. This is where you become a true 800m runner.

Also messed up me bloody name on the last post Lol good luck mate

Yeah I think i'm definitely more of a 800/1500m runner. Or at least I have to train like one to reach my potential. But I'm probably more of a pure 800m runner more than anything. Times might skew more towards 400/500/600 rather than the 1500 for me mainly because the 400-600m races are very easy mentally. I can tend to get more out of myself during a 400m than during a mile, because there is really no mental aspect to running races below 800m, at least for me.

Week Ending in 12/28/19

Sunday: Road mile in 4:38. Got drug out in ~61/62, led from 300m to the finish, was in the dark on a hilly course. Wasn't really engaged. Not worried about the time. Just a good workout/shock to my system.

Monday: 7.7 miles @ 7:54 + Lifting

Tuesday: 20min tempo @ 5:35 pace + 4x200m in 30, 29, 28, 27.

Wednesday: AM 6.1 miles @ 7:53 pace

PM 6.1 miles @ 7:33 pace

Thursday: 8.2 miles @ 7:25 pace

Friday: 5.1 miles easy + strides

Saturday: 12.3 miles @ 6:36 pace.

Mileage: 57.6 miles

Overall not a bad week. Road mile wasn't fun. Got the win pretty easily but obviously a trash time. Good workout though.

Tuesday's tempo actually felt great. I was intending on starting much slower and working down to 5:30 pace but ended up running 5:40, 5:36, 5:33 for the first 3 mile splits. Had free time Wednesday so I got a double in, since I usually don't have time for those. Most mileage I've done in probably 4-5 months. Long run was nice and smooth, too. Longest run in a couple months. I plan on getting to a track Monday or Tuesday for some 400m pace stuff. Just gotta keep the ball rolling.

1:47 Pb wrote:

Take my word you want to go over 120m-170m very fast during this time of year at least once a week. Don’t do anything hard before it as you want to be fresh and have great speed mechanics and quick strong strides. Learn to do this while staying completely relaxed up top. This is where you become a true 800m runner.

Fully agree with this sentiment. Work on your top speed at least once a week and don't make it an aerobic session.

In Your Shoes wrote:

1:47 Pb wrote:

Take my word you want to go over 120m-170m very fast during this time of year at least once a week. Don’t do anything hard before it as you want to be fresh and have great speed mechanics and quick strong strides. Learn to do this while staying completely relaxed up top. This is where you become a true 800m runner.

Fully agree with this sentiment. Work on your top speed at least once a week and don't make it an aerobic session.

The reason i say to do this is because it makes the 800m pace feel slower which will make you use less energy to run the pace(efficient). This allows you to cover peak volume at goal 800m pace or better in practice and in the race what it does is that it helps you come through the 400 and not feel like a sprint and then at 600 when others are starting to hurt you still have that aerobic energy left to pull you through the finish. Working on the aerobic system helps from 600-800m but if you’re not efficient at goal pace you’re only going to do well at sit and kick efforts that don’t typically yield PBs.

1:46 Pb

Can you describe your own training when you ran in the 1.46-7 territory with exapmle weeks from base and in season training?

Thanks a lot

This is gold! keep sharing. Thank you