Webb signs with Nike - big article in USA Today

In response to the comments made by many about HS basketball stars, the bidding war for LeBron James (Ohio baller on cover of SI) is in the neighborhood of 25 million between Adidas and Nike. The article can be favorably compared with every article out there about Yao Ming: the bet on potenial.

What has Goucher done at world level? Nothing, nothing at all, he\'s barely made finals, ok so his times are descent, but he\'s run them finishing 9th, 12th, 15th in races that were won in times 20 seconds quicker. Ok so pre and Shorter etc.. didn\'t run as quick, but they weren\'t running in races being won in 12.50 or quicker. You can\'t compare times, equipment, science and everything else has moved on, you can only compare like for like. In other words how did Shorter fare aginst the best in the world at the time and how does Goucher compare with the best today. The fact is Shorter and Pre could only run against the people who were there and they were the best or close to the best every time they competed. Goucher is not in the same league in terms of challenging for major medals he is at least one maybe even two levels down from being in that position. Gouchers a good runner but he\'s nt a great runner, outside America he is practically unknown, even amongst track fans, he\'s achieed very little overseas, nobodyt remembers who finished 14th ina golden league even if he did run 13.11. Kennedy would be almost the length of the straight ahead at his best, baumann is running 13.07 at age 37/8, but Iguess both these h=guys are in the second tier.

that link gives you the top ten performances by americans in every track event, and was wrong before goucher's 1311 leaves him 3rd all time behind kennedy and maree better than salizar, cantrowitz and any other american to compete over than distance. the cutoff for the mile obviously a more popular event is 3:51 for the 10th best perfprmance by an american

I feel that there is going to be some serious input from Nike people into Webb's career from now on.

No way is he going to be allowed to jump into races all over Europe next season and risk getting his ass handed to him on a plate week after week. Not good for the image, see?

Within limits (they are not going to flat out refuse the guy anything, but there will be heavy persuasion) look for careful grooming of the guy. Very carefully chosen races; personal rabbits in the field, if that what it takes to get good times and good placings; more races in the US than overseas. That kind of stuff. And it might continue for a couple of years or more.

I don't feel he is going to be allowed to lose, lose, win, lose... and learn his craft that way.

And I think they have their financial numbers right (name a Nike "failure"). They have a large enough market in white teenagers in the US that they can ignore what Kenyan studs are doing in Europe (which few outside of those on this board ever learn about). They can sell enough "Webb Zoom"'s in the US that it will not matter if they don't sell a single pair elsewhere.

The point Waz was making is that you CANNOT compare times from different eras. You can only look at how well an individual performed compared to the best runners of his/her time period.

And in that regards Goucher has not done much at all. He is 30 seconds behind the WR and is not competitive when racing in the big meets.

Equipment, running surfaces, training methods, nutrition, altitude training etc has changed tremendously from era to era. That is why it can never be fair to compare times from when Pre and Maree ran to the times Goucher is running today. In that regards Ryun?s HS time is much more impressive than Webb?s as Ryun was very close to the WR when he ran his 3:55 mile.

Lastly, I am from Norway; a country where track and field (and long distance running in particular) is very popular. No one in Norway knows who Goucher is, unless (like me) they went to college in the US.

-Clay

yes i agree that it is tuff to compare era's with all the advances in technology and what not. however you must have a comparison in some regards and track and field should be the easiest to compare cause the stop watch doesnt lie. wilt might have averaged 50 per game versus guys 6 foot 9 when he was 7'2 but it is almost impossible to make a judgement on how he could compete in todays nba. but track gives u that ultimate comparision, seb coe ran 1:41 more than 20 years ago put that into todays track world it still ranks him as the number 1 800 guy in the world so dont tell me you cannot compare times becuase that is nonsense. no matter what shoes, surface, uniforms, stadium or any other factor you throw in the guy still has to run 5,000 meters the same amount as pre did in 72 and zatopek in 52 and goucher has run 1311 faster than all but 2 americans 1. bk considered by many as americas best distance runner and 2. maree arguably the best mid distance american of all time...yes goucher is not top notch in the world but neither was kennedy u say gocuher is 30 seconds off the world record and kennedy was 20 so the comparison is not that far off and goucher is still young, so only time will tell.

Kennedy finished sixth in the Olympics, mixed it with the Kenyans in the top meets, ran sub 13.00, what has Goucher done? As for comparing times, yes its afir to compare times in the 800, as an event it has not really moved on, world class times 20 years ago are still world class times today. The 5k is a totally different story, it has moved on dramatically, Pre, Shorter etc.. never got the chance to compeet in races won in 12.40. They probably never thought that kind of time was possible, so I think you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. There has also been hufge advances in training in endurance evnts, whereas this has not been the case in the 800, the way that times have stood still is testament to that. You simply cannot compare times. Somebody could have been 20 secpnds better than anyone else in the world in 1976 and not fully extending themselves, never being pushed, but had they been around now they could have been pushed all the way, its too subjective, fact is Groucher has promised a lot and delivered very little.

Amen!

800 is not the only event that americans havent made strides in over the last 20 years.. look at the stats the american 10k record is mark nenow was set in 1986 thats 16 years ago, the mile record steve scott set in 1982 thats 20 years ago, before bob broke maree's 5k record that stood for 13 years, johnny gray american record set in 1985 thats 17 years old, so much for technology and great strides in endurance events, so dont tell me it is impossible to compare times when the majority of our american records are 15+ years old with the exception of bk and khanouchi (who isnt even an american. dont come on her and rip goucher cause the previous records show americans havent been competitive in those events for 15+ years with the world. final thing yes gocuher has a lot to prove and cant compare him to bk at all at this point but he was only 8 seconds off the winner in a slow 5k final in sydney that doesnt work to his advantage cause he is not outkicking any africans or morrocans and finished 13th. bob had a one of the greatest races in us distance running with his home country 100,000 people worth behind him in atlanta, he went for it and came in 6th 7 seconds back of the winner in a race more fit for a guy like goucher and an enviroment that wont allow you to let down with your whole country watching. dont get me wrong bk is my all time favorite american distance runner but goucher has a chance to be in the mix in 2004 gaining the experience from sydney something pre and bk never got a second chance in the olympic 5k final.

Atlanta was Kennedy's second Olympic final.

Goucher's great but he's yet to break through to a level of all-time great status (Shorter, Pre, Virgin, Kennedy)

If he were to retire today I would rank him along with guys like Davis, Guisto, Coogan, Ramirez, PLasencia,etc)

We're still waiting for the big jump up into the real fire-13:05 or better. The 5000 is so competitive today. I agree somewhat that you can't compare eras but today its definitely a different picture. Look at just about every meet-the 5000 goes in 12:55 and you have 5 to 7 guys in a mob together even with 200 meters to go. Its unbelievable and I say its the deepest and most competitive event in track.

Goucher has the tools to get there. His mile speed is better than Kennedy's and he went 7:34 last year in the 3000. The only thing holding him back is the damn injuries, a problem he's had since high school. Every time he gets injured its costing him and is whittling away at the base he put in years previously and preventing him from building further. He reminds me a little of Tim Hacker in that respect. If Hacker would have ever string together 2 straight years of uninterrupted training and racing between age 24 and 29 he probably would have run 13:10 or better.

danny fugaz wrote:

thats retarded, when was the last time an american ran 13:11 before Goucher...Bob Kennedy...and how many americans have run 13:11 or better ?? salizar, centrowitz.....u name them not that many...dont make gocuher out to be some bum, before webb stepped on the scene goucher was everybodys

Never said Goucher was a bum. He's nothing sitting on the sidelines and 13:11 means little today. At one time I thought he had a pretty good shot at running under 13:00. Not so sure now.

Webb at 3:53 in the one distance event that Americans will pay attention to breaking the record of a person that Americans will have heard of is far more marketable than anything Goucher has done.

fredo wrote:

Atlanta was Kennedy's second Olympic final.

Goucher's great but he's yet to break through to a level of all-time great status (Shorter, Pre, Virgin, Kennedy)

If he were to retire today I would rank him along with guys like Davis, Guisto, Coogan, Ramirez, PLasencia,etc)

I don't like pat on the back posts but this one echoes my sentiments.

Kennedy at the world level is far superior to Goucher. Kennedy and Pre at 5k are fairly similar runners vs their era of competitors.