And the '76 Dolphins pop champagne after the last undefeated team of the football season loses. It turns out that sometimes notable record holders aren't excited to be surpassed.
George213 wrote:
A comment on facebook:Shocking commentary by Paula Radcliffe when she was on course to beat her record though! "I hope she pays for this pace!'I think the BBC have better commentators. Amazing result and well done Mary.
What a bitch. That woman really irks me, disgusting!
Run007xx wrote:
RoJo, WeJo - You're both sort of making a distinction between 'escorting' and 'pacing', but when I read the nuances of your descriptions, I'm sorry but I really don't see the difference - other than to say 'escorting' is intended to be a little bit on the down-low while 'pacing' is overt. But when the pay you money to 'escort' someone - and if you get paid extra if that someone breaks the world record, then clearly the intent is that you're going to help them.
I agree with your assessment it was intended to be on the lowdown but I gave her less assistance than other pace makers but people may not care at the end of the day. Yes she got some assistance from me being there but Keitany got assistance today as well from her female pacer.
The fastest way for a woman to run would be with a few guys running right in front of her the whole way, setting the pace and breaking the wind. Some don't like the optics of that.
not a nike fan wrote:
Run007xx wrote:RoJo, WeJo - You're both sort of making a distinction between 'escorting' and 'pacing', but when I read the nuances of your descriptions, I'm sorry but I really don't see the difference - other than to say 'escorting' is intended to be a little bit on the down-low while 'pacing' is overt. But when the pay you money to 'escort' someone - and if you get paid extra if that someone breaks the world record, then clearly the intent is that you're going to help them.
This is important because the race we watched today was a phenomenal race but it is diminished a bit by the fact that it's not the officially recognised world record.
And correct me if I'm wrong but the Sub2 attempt is going to be paced through all 42k, and that's the ONLY thing that will prevent it from being recognised as a world record.
I think it's different because the men are more instructed to react to the women's pace than set the pace. I mean Paula ran a big negative split.
As for the sub-2, I think the following will make it inelegible.
1) Pacers dropping in and out of the race.
2) Water bottles being driven up to the athletes (think about how much time you lose when you slow down at all of the aid stationgs).
3) Illegal shoes.
And he still won't come close to 2:00:00.
The ONLY difference is you have men pacing women. It is a mixed gender race.
Okay, but how late in the race did you (or the other guys) 'escort' Paula? It's late in the race that matters... Keitany was alone for the second half of the race - when she could have used the help.
I feel the big wild-card in any WR attempt is how long the pacers can hang. That's why I think Kenny missed a golden opportunity in Berlin last year - basically, after the pacers dropped he had Kipping pacing him till about 41k+ of the race. That's not likely to happen again for him unfortunately and as a result I don't see him being able to break the world record unfortunately.
BTW, I 'paced' Regina Jacobs in the 2mile an 'all comers' meet in Los Gatos California in the early 2000s when the then world record was around 9:20. With me pacing she ran a 9:11(!!) unofficially. It was obviously not a recognised world record but she did run (I think if I recall correctly) a world record later that year, but it was ultimately wiped off the record books because she was caught doping in the BALCO scandal.
not a nike fan wrote:
I think it's different because the men are more instructed to react to the women's pace than set the pace. I mean Paula ran a big negative split.
It really misleading. She said to make it sound like she had it tougher. You can't tell me the organizers wanted the pacer to set that pace. She was reacting to Mary.
Some people are wired like that, but she should be announcing if she is actively going to root against a competitor because she is fast. Very unprofessional.
rojo wrote:
Why is when there is a powerful woman, there is so much animosity? It blows my mind.
...
?
I assume that this is a joke...
We're pretty much equal opportunity here. If anything, much tougher on the men than the women
Think Lance, Mo, Rupp, Aouita, El Gerrouj...
We pretty much gave a free pass to the Russian women. It's mentioned, but it's not an obsession like on the men side.
wejo wrote:
Run007xx wrote:RoJo, WeJo - You're both sort of making a distinction between 'escorting' and 'pacing', but when I read the nuances of your descriptions, I'm sorry but I really don't see the difference - other than to say 'escorting' is intended to be a little bit on the down-low while 'pacing' is overt. But when the pay you money to 'escort' someone - and if you get paid extra if that someone breaks the world record, then clearly the intent is that you're going to help them.
I agree with your assessment it was intended to be on the lowdown but I gave her less assistance than other pace makers but people may not care at the end of the day. Yes she got some assistance from me being there but Keitany got assistance today as well from her female pacer.
The fastest way for a woman to run would be with a few guys running right in front of her the whole way, setting the pace and breaking the wind. Some don't like the optics of that.
I certainly don't. I advise a female runner, and the one thing I would not do is to pace her in a race.
However, I'm willing to accept that a professional race is different; that's entertainment.
I was watching BBC coverage of the race this morning, and I heard Paula say that too. It struck me as a purposefully deceiving thing to say, designed to make the average person think that she didn't have pacers. Call it an escort, call it a pacer -- she had assistance that Mary didn't have access to, and she was trying to make it seem like that wasn't the case. I'm not even trying to say that Paula's use of pacers/escorts was unfair -- it was just different. But either way, just be honest about it.
To be clear, I've long ago lost respect for Paula, so it's not like her comments were a tipping point or anything. But they were confirmation for me that Paula is all about Paula, and she's not a person I admire.
Ftyhjjjjjjj wrote:
rojo wrote:Why is when there is a powerful woman, there is so much animosity? It blows my mind.
...
I assume that this is a joke...
We're pretty much equal opportunity here. If anything, much tougher on the men than the women
Think Lance, Mo, Rupp, Aouita, El Gerrouj...
We pretty much gave a free pass to the Russian women. It's mentioned, but it's not an obsession like on the men side.
That's just rojo trying to show he's he a sensitive new age social justice warrior type male. I've noticed it a lot lately, it's a worrying trait that seems to be creeping in to a lot of his writings, I think there may be a hidden rationale and motive there somewhere.
It's interesting to hear about Paula's comments, because I watched the NBC coverage, which had other people commentating (I never figured out who they were). On that coverage they mentioned quite a few times how hard is was for Mary Keitany to be running alone for so long, and they were also talking about how hard it is to find female pacers for record attempts in women's marathons. There isn't the same level of depth, and therefore not that many people that can run fast enough to be helpful. If you're a woman that can run a 66 or 67 minute half (and then hopefully hold on a little while past that), you're probably right in the prime of your career and in the hunt for big wins of your own.
Also, the NBC commentators were saying that Paula would be happy that her record was being broken, that she would be happy for the progression of the sport and all that. Haha! Sounds like they were wrong on that one.
The distinction is very clear.
For a women only WR there can't be any male runners in the same vicinity of the women runners - they are out there on their own.
Put male runners/pacers/escorts/paid/un-paid/etc. on the course with the elite women and it becomes a mixed race.
Races like NY, London, Boston, etc. have the women go off first with a time gap for the men's/mass start to ensure that the lead women runners are not caught by the top men.
Thanks for that explanation, for years I've been trying to work out why that was so.
PAULA CLAIMS SHE DIDN'T HAVE 'PACERS'
Maybe she was claiming her money was on the Cavs?
bkrunner wrote:
I was watching BBC coverage of the race this morning, and I heard Paula say that too. It struck me as a purposefully deceiving thing to say, designed to make the average person think that she didn't have pacers. Call it an escort, call it a pacer -- she had assistance that Mary didn't have access to, and she was trying to make it seem like that wasn't the case. I'm not even trying to say that Paula's use of pacers/escorts was unfair -- it was just different. But either way, just be honest about it.
To be clear, I've long ago lost respect for Paula, so it's not like her comments were a tipping point or anything. But they were confirmation for me that Paula is all about Paula, and she's not a person I admire.
She was also asked at the 5k mark did she think keitany had overcooked it
She replied "i hope so"
I thought that was douchy enough
I understand the difference in women's and mixed races, but a pacer is a pacer is a pacer. What difference does it make if the pacer is the same sex? Just make them all ineligible to place in a race. Would that help. Heck make all pacing mechanical. How is it any different to provide a male pacer to women and also provide pacers lesser groups (ie- whities)? In either case the pacers aren't going to full potential. It's just a joke and not really fair to the women. Did Keitany receive the same amount of money for breaking the women's only record as opposed to the overall women's record? Or the same amount as if a male record had been set? Or did London cover that with time bonuses? On the other hand, is there even a recognised male non-paced record?
End of rant. Just seems ridiculous.
B c.f. hrk wrote:
I understand the difference in women's and mixed races, but a pacer is a pacer is a pacer. What difference does it make if the pacer is the same sex?
Because you won't have female pacers running with you through the whole way......
Run007xx wrote:
While commentating on the London marathon - with Mary fading below the target world record pace but still on pace for a 'women only' world record - Steve Cram and Brendan Foster asked her to explain to the viewers the difference between the IAAF sanctioned world record and the 'women's only' record. She basically explained that back in the day, the men and women started together and there were 'some men around me' but that they weren't pacers.
However in your bio on letsrun.com you seem to suggest that the race organisers specifically asked you to be a rabbit. Is she LYING (or marginalising the truth)?
What she said on that BBC live feed was that in London SHE RAN ALONE THE FIRST FIVE MILES....
KAV wrote:
[quote]Run007xx wrote:
While commentating on the London marathon - with Mary fading below the target world record pace but still on pace for a 'women only' world record - Steve Cram and Brendan Foster asked her to explain to the viewers the difference between the IAAF sanctioned world record and the 'women's only' record. She basically explained that back in the day, the men and women started together and there were 'some men around me' but that they weren't pacers....
Ok, Escorts...
Gray Zone...
I've always wondered if Rojo and Wejo realize the culture on this site.
No, you are not equally hard on the men. The way this site talks about women athletes, and the way that they are disparaged and disrespected consistently is amazing. Someone once posted the topic "why are there so few women posters on LetsRun" and this is why. It's icky.
Just another fat guy wrote:
Seems like Paula has some character flaws. What else would she lie about?