Rojo
Did you mean to say "The doping in Kenya is a few rogue people. The doping in NOP is NIKE sponsored."
Rojo
Did you mean to say "The doping in Kenya is a few rogue people. The doping in NOP is NIKE sponsored."
actually there are vastly more elite and sub elite japanese runners than there is in all of africa.the japanese dont dominate,but in terms of numbers they leave all other countries on earth in the dust.take a look at any world rankings and the number of japanese is huge.if all the african drug cheating is exposed there'll always be good africans,but theyll no longer dominate,and itll mean japanese 5000 and 10'000 metre runners will find themselves to be very competitive,indeed.
no,more like 2.10 to 2.12.drug gains are much bigger than just two minutes.
jeff tallon wrote:
no,more like 2.10 to 2.12.drug gains are much bigger than just two minutes.
2:10? Come on, surely you don't think anyone under 2:10 is doping. There are a good number of 2:08 Japanese guys who I'm sure are clean. Surely East Africans could also do the same without drugs.
East Africans dominate not because of drugs but they have evolved as runners and not stalled/declined in performance as the rest of the distance running world. Example: American men's marathon times 40 years ago would hold up very well today in the U.S. This certainly not true in Kenya/Ethiopia.
Lydiard is God wrote:
PTL. The only reason I visit LRC these days is the hope of seeing more African cheats exposed-or any cheats, really, but Africans are the most fun, because they've convinced pathetic whitey that he can't compete for so long, that their comeuppance is well overdue.
Lot of truth there. But it was folks like the Rosas and Hermens behind it, with backing that people would find quite amazing here, but the truth will come out at some point. Lots of talent in E. Africa, but it's nothing like the artificial situation we've seen over the past 30 years. A true level playing field, submitting the E. Africans (and Cubans, Jamaicans and lots of Central Americans) to year round testing, spot checks and the like just like Americans, Europeans, Japanese, and so on would likely cut the numbers of elite E. Africans 30% - 70% depending on the event.
Jeff- have you ever been to Kenya?
I think all it takes is one trip over there to see that drugs is not the reason the Africans dominate distance running. Running is the only way out for a lot of people there so they give it a go and and are in an environment very conducive to running.
Of course that gives them an incentive to dope but...
I don't think it's that high but if if you reduced the marathon ranks by 70% of the Kenyans they'd still dominate.
I just looked it up the top 91 men's times in the world in the marathon last year were from runners of African descent according to all-athletics.com. Tadesse Abraham is the only runner not representing an African country in the top 91 and he's running for Switzerland.
Suehiro Ishikawa of Japan at 2:09:25 was #92 in the world.
Now granted if a lot of the guys ahead of him are doping and pushed out of the ranks maybe more Europeans would give it a go but they'd still have to get a lot better to be a force.
El Keniano wrote:
Well, supposing you got your wish of a blanket ban on Kenya, you'd still have Ethiopia to deal with and they've come off unscathed thus far.
Dibaba was lucky to escape being busted.
You probably meant 2:07-9. That is what the most talented clean runners do.
Darrington wrote:
El kenaino,
Oh they'll still dominate, just that it will be with 2:05s instead of 2:03-4.
asd2333 wrote:
Seriously at what point do races start banning all Kenyans? The #1 women in the olympics literally is busted for cheating all of her partners should be banned on racing in the US or any majors.
And now all US. athletes should be banned?
Guilt by assiciation right?
---Because in case you're just finding out, US Hurdler and gold medalist Brianna Rollins just got popped.
Galen Rupp and Matt Centrowitz should be banned now by your African-phobic reasoning!
Correctional wrote:
You probably meant 2:07-9. That is what the most talented clean runners do.
Darrington wrote:El kenaino,
Oh they'll still dominate, just that it will be with 2:05s instead of 2:03-4.
You're probably right.
Wejo- First, your stats are a bit misleading because Rupp got a bronze. He may not be among the 10 best marathoners but he is better than number 91. No one doubts that the East African countries have great talent and a culture of running. They will always have lots of very good runners. I do t think they are all dirty but the question is how big of a factor is doping. It's becoming more clear that it's a significant issue. And it will discourage others who may think they can only peak at lesser times (2:10).If a few guys are capable of going 2:06 or better in a year that is one thing. Now we have the combination of the sheer number of great times, prominent positives, and a very flawed testing system. That needs to change for the sport to be taken seriously.
El Keniano wrote:
Western Canada Conservative wrote:Pro running in North America should blanket ban all of Africa. African runners bring little economic influence, or raise the profile of racing in North America. If you want to sell fewer magazines, put an African on the front cover.
From mighty Canada, Mecca of runners who sell magazines by the boatload. In recent times, this sport's best, most important, ambassadors have been Usain Bolt and Haile Gebreselasie ... not a North American in sight.
No, I am only concern with the state of the natural resources and petroleum products that we export. Canada is mighty from this point of view. Sorry , but Usain and Haile are not really welcomed in this country. If Haile moved here , he would be working for $10 an hour in a shoe store.
Bad Wigins wrote:
slow down there, slim shady wrote:most other Kenyans do not rate on the world scene. Neither do ANY OF THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE PLANET WHO EAT MODESTLY.
Especially not the Ethiopians, Eritreans and Somalians. Or the Japanese.
Fascinating. You submit a genetically dominant bunch of Africans (after asserting that genetics has nothing to do with it) while ignoring the relative lack of dominance of the rest of Africa, which also eats modestly. You submit the Japanese who are culturally focused on running as evidence, but ignore the rest of Asia - literally more than 2 billion people - who eat modestly.
Face it -- you were wrong. Keeping away from overweight / obesity is only part of the picture necessary to produce a dominant distance runner.
There has been identified a genetic trait shared by many Ethiopians. Ethiopians, some highlanders in or near Peru and people of Nepal are resistant to chronic altitude sickness. A gene has been identified. Does that trait allow Ethiopians to log vigorous miles at 8000 feet plus elevation without breaking down? Since 1956 Ethiopians, men & women have the most Olympic gold, 5000m & 10000m. Running is the sport in Ethiopia. Many USA kids beef up for American football. Their winters are better than winters in USA above 40 latitude in USA.
Lydiard is God wrote:
PTL. The only reason I visit LRC these days is the hope of seeing more African cheats exposed
The first thing I saw at LRC today was news that an American cheat (another) was banned for 12 months.
Western Canada Conservative wrote:
El Keniano wrote:From mighty Canada, Mecca of runners who sell magazines by the boatload. In recent times, this sport's best, most important, ambassadors have been Usain Bolt and Haile Gebreselasie ... not a North American in sight.
No, I am only concern with the state of the natural resources and petroleum products that we export. Canada is mighty from this point of view. Sorry , but Usain and Haile are not really welcomed in this country. If Haile moved here , he would be working for $10 an hour in a shoe store.
Glad we agree. Canada doesn't matter.
JKsparky wrote:
asd2333 wrote:Seriously at what point do races start banning all Kenyans? The #1 women in the olympics literally is busted for cheating all of her partners should be banned on racing in the US or any majors.
And now all US. athletes should be banned?
Guilt by assiciation right?
---Because in case you're just finding out, US Hurdler and gold medalist Brianna Rollins just got popped.
Galen Rupp and Matt Centrowitz should be banned now by your African-phobic reasoning!
Jemima, Brianna. Brianna, Jemima. Almost poetic.
duck2022 wrote:
nothing will change ............................
we are talking money here , money dictates
anyways
with igf-1 lr3 still get close and there is still nike special sauce
as in the doping will just get more specialised with the loopholes
wada / iaaf have deliberatly left open ,
wont test for other types of similar epo chemicals
I mostly agree, but an important detail is the federations set up WADA as a distraction. Western sponsors were losing faith with the IOC.
Go back in time and you will find a real rogues gallery of federation bosses were the ones gutting the very good science used in the bio-passport and ensuring they are still able to control the outcome of doping tests. Diack, Blatter, Verbruggen, etc.
...so when does this hammer drop?