The emperor has no clothes: Jemima Sumgong has tested positive for EPO!!!

TroLLminator wrote:

Seattle escapee wrote:

Say what you want about American runners, but in all these years I have heard not a whisper of credible unethical practice from Jerry Schumacher's group. Shalane losing to these dopers only buttresses my faith in Schu's program.

I'm not saying they are doping, only that if it turned out they are, you should not be surprised at all. Btw it is naive to just point to certain group as clean or dirty. Athletes are adults and make their own decisions. Consider that individual athletes may have access to and try doping without their coach or group members knowing.

Agreed. At this point everyone close to the top would not shock me as cheating in one way or another. It's a shame but our sport is turning into cycling where outsiders view it as a joke. I want to believe none of our Americans would cheat but how realistic is it to say 3 out of the top 7 at the womens Boston 2014 race cheated but not our runners. Are Rupp, Shalane, and the rest really that good? I hope so.

Wait..... wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

She is scheduled to run the London Marathon on April 23rd, I wonder if she will be able to run?, claiming the B sample has to come up positive to be banned?n

All this hoopla / accusation nonsense is about a preliminary A sample, not a B sample that would be more conclusive.

The Brojos have no shame at all.

An A sample is not "preliminary". It´s blood or urine from the same test.

It´s a lot easier to hide from testers on the African countryside.

Maybe you should have begun listening to more critical takes on doping in sport when those with some knowledge on them used to post here? Just a thought. It's only been a decade or so and you continue to trumpet WADA's stance as though it's anything more than a marketing ploy.

Your last point is easy to explain. Ever since Coe's (Peter) talk in Italy,

"more is less" has ruled in Europe. In the US this changed some years

ago. That is why we see Rupp, Solinsky, Teg etc.

Europe is still suffering from this.

Whether doping was rampant in the 70/80s, I am not sure of, but it wouldn't surprise me (no EPO obviously).

No wonder Farah didn't have an answer to Jeilan's storming final 100m at the World Championships in 2011!!!

uhmmmm wrote:

I have no confidence that anyone (in any popular category) who metaled at the Olympics was clean.

webby wrote:

I'm willing to split the difference and say that most world class runners are dirty.

Thinking there's some magic line between medalling and not medalling makes no sense at all. You're stating that you have no confidence in Nick Willis being clean, but Souleiman, who runs for Aden and finished a fraction of a second behind Willis, could be clean because he didn't win a medal.

Peter Andersson wrote:

One more thought: She's the first Kenyan olympic gold medalist to go down, right? This could be the IAAF sending a strong signal to Kenya that they have an eye on them not overstepping realistic bounds after that incredible 1-6 place domination at XC Worlds the other weekend.

This process with Sumgong didn't just start two weeks ago.

webby wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Most play by the rules. I would guess that most of the people in your job don't steal from the company.

My company doesn't encourage employees to steal and my field doesn't make it nearly impossible to succeed without cheating. Our auditors, furthermore, are independent and not incentivized to facilitate theft. And our local police force isn't a glorified PR firm.

Without knowing the details of your work, you're saying that if it were easier to get away with stealing, you would.

How does your experience as an athlete tell you how easy it is to get away with cheating as a top track athlete? If it's so easy, why are we talking about Sumgong today?

Canova doesn't come out of this looking too good after his fullsome backing of Rosa, a man he presumably knows well

The brojos have zero credibility when it comes to doping. They think Bolt and Paula are clean yet think all of Salazar's athletes are dirty. There's no consistency with their opinions.

Most of us sensible regulars know that the correct answer is most likely "all of the above."

rekrunnerjustslashedhiswrists wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

My comments and intuitions about EPO are generally directed at men's performances, in large part, because I think the women should already be running much faster, but lack the critical mass necessary to bring the right group of runners quickly enough to 30K to make the fast times possible, and can generally get away with running tactical races with slow starts.

It is not necessary for a woman to take EPO to run a 2:20:41 (ranks 28th best woman, 44th best performance).

Just the same, I am disappointed seeing this news. I hope we find out the source.

Rekrunner is so gullible.

It isn't gullibility.

webby wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Most play by the rules. I would guess that most of the people in your job don't steal from the company.

My company doesn't encourage employees to steal and my field doesn't make it nearly impossible to succeed without cheating. Our auditors, furthermore, are independent and not incentivized to facilitate theft. And our local police force isn't a glorified PR firm.

^This.

A better comparison than with Wigand's company would be situations where one virtually cannot get caught. For example, with tax declarations (especially in Greece). Or watch cyclists in any Chinese city with less than 10 million inhabitants: they go through red lights in front of the police, who doesn't care.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Rekrunner is so gullible.

It isn't gullibility.[/quote]

Then what is it? Living in denial?

rekrunnner wrote:

You are right. And it also confirms that the Brojos have a good ability to assess when people are lying to their faces. While Sumgong lied and the Brojos believed her at first, they were willing to look at other evidence (ie: the positive sample) and re-evaluate their position, and come to the conclusion that Sumgong was indeed lying.

Likewise, they've always believed Paula's story about being clean. When others have said Paula was lying, the Brojos looked at the evidence and were able to conclude that Paula was not in fact lying to them, and they were right.

Kudos to Brojos, kudos to Paula.

Mega-kudos to Britain. Boo-hiss on Kenya.

^This. Naturally. But you forgot to mention that Jemima doesn't count because she is a female African, and your EPO stance is to exclude women and Africans (and top Europeans) and race walkers.

rekrunner wrote:

My comments and intuitions about EPO are generally directed at men's performances, in large part, because I think the women should already be running much faster, but lack the critical mass necessary to bring the right group of runners quickly enough to 30K to make the fast times possible, and can generally get away with running tactical races with slow starts.

There you go. I was waiting for your comment that you wouldn't consider women, or any African for that matter.

Keep your comments coming, this is gold!

Jeff Wigand wrote:

How does your experience as an athlete tell you how easy it is to get away with cheating as a top track athlete? If it's so easy, why are we talking about Sumgong today?

a) Very easy. Try to keep up. Examples are abundant.

b) Because once in a while an athlete doesn't pay attention, and/or gets too greedy/desperate. Examples are abundant.

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

My comments and intuitions about EPO are generally directed at men's performances, in large part, because I think the women should already be running much faster, but lack the critical mass necessary to bring the right group of runners quickly enough to 30K to make the fast times possible, and can generally get away with running tactical races with slow starts.

There you go. I was waiting for your comment that you wouldn't consider women, or any African for that matter.

Keep your comments coming, this is gold!

Also Boulami and Mourhit do not count. Basically anyway who runs fast and tested positive for EPO is discounted from reckrunner's "analysis" on the efficacy of EPO in distance running.

MD.. wrote:

Canova doesn't come out of this looking too good after his fullsome backing of Rosa, a man he presumably knows well

Where is Canova anyway? I think a lot of us are waiting for his hot take on all of this. Please come out of hiding, Renato.