The emperor has no clothes: Jemima Sumgong has tested positive for EPO!!!

She will be in jail for a year, and very poor when she is out.

El Keniano wrote:

Far from being "ignored", you have no idea the cloud over Kenyan athletics. It's all over the news and fully understood the damage to the reputation of hardworking athletes will probably be irreparable because now every Kenyan performance will be questioned. I can't even begin to fathom how anyone would do this knowing the consequences. Oh, and on top of the social ostracism, she could be going to jail.

I wonder what goes trough your head. You cant fathom why athletes from poor nations want to achieve fame wich includes huge amount of money (much more so for people from poor nations than rich) and a lifetime of respect (unless caught)?

Poor athletes have far more incentive to cheat. This is not me saying kenyans cheat more than others because of low morale, this is me saying poor people are willing to go further to acheive money and success than rich and comfortable people. Its human nature. Stop being so naive...

Poor people are less moral? Those cyclists from rich countries doped because they're less desperate for riches?

rekrunner wrote:

Other ways are to collect raw data. Renato has posted the blood values of his athletes (coaches can legally collect and analyze blood), arguing the assumed correlation to blood values and performance is not always there -- the best performances of athletes come at the end of the season with lower blood values. The athletes whose blood best responded at altitude were not the same ones whose performance improved.

He may or may not have these blood values. They may or may not support his point.

I have encouraged him many times to publish these blood values. Either in a raw form so that they can be analyzed by others or in a study in combination with scientists.

He has not responded to my suggestion. Perhaps he thinks the data is proprietary and gives him an edge. Perhaps there is a privacy element to it. I don't know why he does not publish his blood test results.

I do know that if you are claiming in public that you have scientific evidence of something, and refuse to provide the data, that other people should not accept on face value that you have the data and that they say what it is alleged that they say. That is not how science works.

from the last time Retardo wrote some huge annoying response of stupidity i have refused to waste my time reading his bull$hit. his is to me just as annoying as vent now. vent rants on and on about jim ryun running 3:24, and Retardo rants on and on that EPO doesnt work.

let me tell you this Retardo, your best bet is to shut up because soon you will be exposed as a crook, liar and do you think for one minute these LR's wont forget your long winded bull$hit paragraphs? oh no they will have a field day with your lies.

as i have said and others have said and Sprintgeezer even pointed out, your either a MORON of EPIC proportions, or a LIAR. i think vent is the moron, because his delusional nonsense isnt making him any money. but you....you are the biggest FRAUD out there! how much money do you make from coaching?

lets take a look at your bull$hit as it has evolved over the course of time

-kenyans and ethiopioans dont dope, they are too nice of people

-only weak minded ones dope, not real elite athletes

-PEDS dont work on real elite athletes, and the ones taking them actually run slower when the take them....but real elite athletes dont have mind weak.

-only my athletes i coach are the elite and dont have mind weak, and they are too nice people

-PEDS dont work on my elite athletes, and they are clean, not mind weak, now i will post times and races to prove nothing and ramble on and on how no one on here is up to my level of genius as a coach. mind weak trolls.

i know why you keep this up and flail so hard to defend your previous lies....YOU WONT BE A GREAT COACH if your a PED pusher. you have the black magic, when and how to micro dose, and make good cocktails. you get to cherry pick top athletes and administer the doping. without you and your PED knowledge and protection would you be that amazing? again go to some US college and try to take 9:20 2 miler kids and drop them down to the 13:20's in a 5k and then you can start bragging how God like you are. i cant wait till the day brojo and wejo have a black page with your face flashing as you exposed. enough with your long winded bull$hit. the man who screams the loudest has the most to hid, a truthful wise man will keep his mouth shut.

You are off key because you are making a generalized assumption of athletes from so called third world countries.Clearly you have never been around the africans or their system of training. Getting rich or famous is not a primary goal of these athletes. Hoping for a life changing opportunity, to compete for their country, to travel and see another part of the world are what I know being around these athletes for the last 42 years.

Where do the bad guys come in? Its the agents. They see the athletes as a commodity,knowing full well each one is revenue producing stream from the percentage cut they get from prize ,appearance monies and shoe deals.They know they can slip under the radar and not be penalized. Loosing one or two athletes means nothing to them as they have a dozen others bringing income and are signing up the next crop of young runners.Until we cut the head of the snake off drug usage will prevail.

How does it work? The agent works as the middle man making the introduction to the administering doctor, the are never onsite to witness or see the usage,but they working directly with the doctor to know the exact protocol and timing. Athletes are convinced they are doing nothing wrong and all athletes do this. Is presented as a recovery modality vs performance enhancing.

Renato Canova wrote:

Here the only moron are you....

Am I the only one who reads Canova's posts in the voice of Count Chocula?

i dont even read his posts any more, they have become such a long annoying eye sore of stupidity that i have to scroll for HOURS to get to the end of it, i think the brojo/wejo's need to make a yearly award "Most obnoxious delusional self-righteous a$$hole of the year award" it will be him and vent in a super close event, one using intrinsic hypothetical fantasy land values, and the other using lots of EPO while claiming he just had mind strong

i agree with spencer wrote:

i dont even read his posts any more, they have become such a long annoying eye sore of stupidity that i have to scroll for HOURS to get to the end of it, i think the brojo/wejo's need to make a yearly award "Most obnoxious delusional self-righteous a$$hole of the year award" it will be him and vent in a super close event, one using intrinsic hypothetical fantasy land values, and the other using lots of EPO while claiming he just had mind strong

I still read them, I am a glutton for punishment.

I agree with you, there needs to be an award for quacks like Canova, just like there is a special place in Hell for liars like him.

Maybe there could also be a perpetual award for "Most-Gullible-Brother-Who-Entered-A-Doper's-House-And-Was-Duped." Since they are twins, the Brojos could share the award, since they already share an incredible gullibility.

Him and Radcliffe and Gebresellasie

The greatest dopers are the greatest liars

I would guess there is a privacy element to it.There may also be an element of, why should he bother?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

He may or may not have these blood values. They may or may not support his point.

I have encouraged him many times to publish these blood values. Either in a raw form so that they can be analyzed by others or in a study in combination with scientists.

He has not responded to my suggestion. Perhaps he thinks the data is proprietary and gives him an edge. Perhaps there is a privacy element to it. I don't know why he does not publish his blood test results.

I do know that if you are claiming in public that you have scientific evidence of something, and refuse to provide the data, that other people should not accept on face value that you have the data and that they say what it is alleged that they say. That is not how science works.

longjack wrote:

the problem with this EPO discussion, is that the people that have trained on EPO, I'm not seeing them in the discussion.

I'm going by what EPO users that were caught, what they said about using, also Victor Conte has got a bunch of testimony..

.

The people who know are not allowed to talk about it openly due to the fact it's illegal, unless they've been caught already.

Evil scientists like Canova and Ferrari are always the best scientists because they understand the big picture much better. Our society requires them to act like angels unless they want their freedom taken away.

Canova is brilliant. You guys get too hung up on his EPO explanation. Whether he believes it or not, who cares, as that's not a question he can answer honestly. You may as well ask him if he's murdered anyone recently.

There are many possible reasons. If Canova won't speak for himself he leaves it open to the speculation of others.He seems keen to convince people that doping doesn't work on his athletes. That would be a good reason to release that data, it might be awfully convincing. Some of us are more than willing to believe in evidence.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Poor people are less moral? Those cyclists from rich countries doped because they're less desperate for riches?

Erhm, I wrote the opposite. Secondly, yes, poor people have more incentives to cheat. Doesn't mean rich people cheat too, but probably less. Less incentive. Not saying anything about culture or that some people are better than others, though its obvious that some nations are far worse than others. Italy and Spain seems to be far worse than Denmark for example.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying that poor people and rich people are equal in terms of cheating? No difference regarding wanting a life without poverty?

I've been scammed by taxi drivers and tourist guides and pickpocketed in public transportation in Spain, France and Italy; All richer countries. NEVER in Kenya. I, however, bear less animosity towards the person that picks your wallet than the criminals who run financial services and systems that constantly rip us off, wipe out people's life savings/pensions and bring economies as large as the United States to their knees.

What was that you were saying about the rich being less prone to crime?

longjack wrote:

the problem with this EPO discussion, is that the people that have trained on EPO, I'm not seeing them in the discussion.

Calling Eddy H.

El Keniano wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

So, correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying that poor people and rich people are equal in terms of cheating? No difference regarding wanting a life without poverty?

I've been scammed by taxi drivers and tourist guides and pickpocketed in public transportation in Spain, France and Italy; All richer countries. NEVER in Kenya. I, however, bear less animosity towards the person that picks your wallet than the criminals who run financial services and systems that constantly rip us off, wipe out people's life savings/pensions and bring economies as large as the United States to their knees.

What was that you were saying about the rich being less prone to crime?

followthemoney wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

I've been scammed by taxi drivers and tourist guides and pickpocketed in public transportation in Spain, France and Italy; All richer countries. NEVER in Kenya. I, however, bear less animosity towards the person that picks your wallet than the criminals who run financial services and systems that constantly rip us off, wipe out people's life savings/pensions and bring economies as large as the United States to their knees.

What was that you were saying about the rich being less prone to crime?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Kenya

Ah, takes me back to the Nairobbery days of the mid 90s and 2000s. Like me posting about rampant crime in NYC in the 70s and 80s not knowing how the city is now. Not the same, but thanks for trying.