Do you think Gary Robinson will be permanently affected by the loss at Barkleys?

Er... wrote:

I'm confused and not knowledgeable about this race at all. If the requirement is to present a page from the book to prove you've made it to the checkpoints, and he did that, then how does Laz know he missed the last two miles of the loop? Laz says the books are unmanned checkpoints and that, like a running race such as the Boston Marathon, if you miss a checkpoint you're DQ'd.

But he didn't miss a checkpoint. What's with this missed the last two miles stuff?

It's not that hard to understand. The requirement is to follow the route (like in a running race), meaning the line on the map. If you get off route, you should get find your way back to where you got off route and get back on the route. The book checkpoints help enforce this where there aren't people to check on the racers.

There is precedence for disqualifying someone who doesn't run the route. I saw this when I was reading Matt Mahoney's Barkley website the other night:

"In 2001, after several failed attempts, Blake Wood, 42, NM, and David Horton, 50, VA, finished together in 58:21, only to be disqualified for inadvertently leaving the course to follow a parallel route for about 200 yards. This route (on the south side of the stream instead of the north side) has slightly better footing and had been the normal route until 2000."

Orienteering skills are obviously important for Barkley, but it's not orienteering. In a standard orienteering competition, you run to a series of controls (circled and numbered features on the map) that you have to go to in a specific order (the lines linking the circled features). In orienteering, you don't have to stick to the lines on the map because they are just there to point to the next control. You just have to visit the controls in the correct order (or any order if it's a Score-O format, in which case there are only circled features without lines connecting them). For Barkley, you need to stick to the route line.

SStollerS wrote:

You obviously don't know this laz guy. His race. His rules. He has po'd a lot of people through the years.

This is it exactly. Except it's not a race at all and it's not even real orienteering, it's a "challenge". It's a really weird challenge he has set up and people want to try it as they think it "tests themselves" or some other pseudo-intellectual bull . And, since he invented the challenge, Laz, who is a really odd guy, gets to totally and arbitrarily calls the shots. You want to do his challenge, him being in charge is all part of it. His "pride" is that most people can't finish it. Which is the key to showing it's a not a race. The challenge is just to finish and there are time limits to finish his challenge. I'm surprised he hasn't added in having to eat bugs after each loop.

Want a good challenge for Laz, ask him do 10 push-ups! Hahahaha, you've got him beat. Oh, here's another good one, see if he can blow up a really large balloon. Beat him again!

side show bob. wrote:

This is it exactly. Except it's not a race at all and it's not even real orienteering, it's a "challenge".

There is a distance and time limit. I'd say it's a race.

Who the hell is Gary Robinson?

I've been trying since 1982 to finish Rubik's cube. It's a challenge, not a race. But I've still been permanently affected by it. So much so that it's caused me to take up ultra running.

RvaRunner wrote:

There is a distance and time limit. I'd say it's a race.

1.)What's the distance that everyone equally has to run? Hint: if you say 100 miles you are an idiot who doesn't know a thing about Barkley's. Guess what, nobody knows the distance.

2.) When you watch a 100m race, say for the Olympics, given that its a race, and by your definition of a race (distance and time limit), what time limit must the runners complete the 100m in or get a dnf at the Olympics? Oh, wait. Guess what, there is no time limit.

So, in summary, you are an idiot.

dot dot wrote:

... the masses think he missed it by a hair ...

Actually the masses don't know anything about this fringe lunacy. When you are here talking to fellow believers you start to think there is a 'mass' that follows this stuff, but there isn't. Ask 1000 people about Gary Robbins missing the Barkley's cutoff by six seconds and 1000 of them will have no idea what you are talking about. I'd bet the masses consist of a few hundred people worldwide.

There isn't a real point here, just don't delude yourself with phrases like 'masses' of people following ultra running, or hell even distance running in general.

Ultra Cube wrote:

I've been trying since 1982 to finish Rubik's cube. It's a challenge, not a race. But I've still been permanently affected by it. So much so that it's caused me to take up ultra running.

Based on the rest of your "analogy", this fact is not surprising.

RvaRunner wrote:

side show bob. wrote:

This is it exactly. Except it's not a race at all and it's not even real orienteering, it's a "challenge".

There is a distance and time limit. I'd say it's a race.

It is a competition to complete some tasks over a course faster than other people. That means it's a race.

But is it a RUNNING race? I'd say no. It's a power hiking, navigational, and general endurance race. But it seems -- from my interested outside observer POV (I've read a lot about it and watched the documentary) -- that it has very little to do with running. There's simply not much running going on. I think it just gets lumped in with running because where else are you going to put this thing in the spectrum of sports as a whole? Ultrarunning is the closest fit.

a pro hiker

it's a race... wrote:

RvaRunner wrote:

There is a distance and time limit. I'd say it's a race.

It is a competition to complete some tasks over a course faster than other people. That means it's a race.

But is it a RUNNING race? I'd say no. It's a power hiking, navigational, and general endurance race. But it seems -- from my interested outside observer POV (I've read a lot about it and watched the documentary) -- that it has very little to do with running. There's simply not much running going on. I think it just gets lumped in with running because where else are you going to put this thing in the spectrum of sports as a whole? Ultrarunning is the closest fit.

Good point. I was thinking about this earlier today. Here are displiplines in different sports which all get slapped with the ultrarunning label but are indeed not running:

Peak Bagging - when you go out and try to get to a highest elevation point on a mountain in a direct manner. Zach Miller does this a lot.

Supported Thru Hiking - Karl Meltzer AT record, Scott Jureck AT, FKTs on trails, etc

Fast packing - it's almost running but not. And anybody who gets assistance on the trail is not fastpacking but support hiking

Support Hiking - self explanatory

Mountaineering - Kilian Journet et al

Orienteering - Barkleys Marathons

They are all distinct and I enjoy them all but they are not ultra running. I hope one day each will get the individual respect they deserve.

It's a footrace. And the guy that completed it this year says it's impossible to complete under the time limit without some running. A race on foot where you aren't limited to a certain style (like racewalking) might as well be lumped in with other running events. The rest is semantics.

By your logic would lyou abel an ultrarun a hike because to finish under the course cutoff time you have to do some bit of hiking? Just because it includes a fraction of a motion, doesn't mean that is what the entire thing is called.

He posted today that he is indeed regretful.

"I ripped open my map and the gravity of things hit me. I did not have enough time left to correct my mistake by going up and over the mountain again. If I did this I would have finished in maybe 60:05 and I would not be an official Barkley Marathons finisher. Here's the thing though, that's exactly what I should have done, and the one regret I have after now sleeping is not doing just that."

http://garyrobbinsrun.com/blog/2017/4/close-but-no-cigarette

Reading all of this Barkley hate is actually really really funny. The semantics being batted back and forth as to what kind of event it is are equally entertaining. My thoughts are that if Barkley and/or ultra distance is not a footrace, what is? If competitive track/marathon running is "running" why can't the ultra guys have "footrace". Plenty of room at the party for everybody. Either way, moving for 60 hrs essentially non-stop through appalachia backwoods is a heck of a feat. Maybe not something we all would want to do or even respect, but it's still a heck of a feat. And for what its worth, the Barkley probably doesn't like you haters that much either ; )

moronica wrote:

Reading all of this Barkley hate is actually really really funny. The semantics being batted back and forth as to what kind of event it is are equally entertaining. My thoughts are that if Barkley and/or ultra distance is not a footrace, what is? If competitive track/marathon running is "running" why can't the ultra guys have "footrace". Plenty of room at the party for everybody. Either way, moving for 60 hrs essentially non-stop through appalachia backwoods is a heck of a feat. Maybe not something we all would want to do or even respect, but it's still a heck of a feat. And for what its worth, the Barkley probably doesn't like you haters that much either ; )

Heck of 2 feet...amirite?

RobbinHood wrote:

He posted today that he is indeed regretful.

I believe he means he would have rather taken the correct route and timed out than make it back on time taking the wrong route.

no rivers to cross........ wrote:

RobbinHood wrote:

He posted today that he is indeed regretful.

I believe he means he would have rather taken the correct route and timed out than make it back on time taking the wrong route.

But he took the wrong route and still didn't make it back on time ;)

Yes, he meant he would have rather taken the correct route and timed out.

I have a hard time imagining anyone would have a coherent thought process and decision making skills after being out there that long.

So now instead of no-one even in the non-ultra running world knowing who he is, an unknown name on a shortlist of 15 people, basically even mainstream people now know of him as he makes news.

Sure he didn't do it for the attention but in the end he is going to have a lot more recognition and respect for his effort, doesn't that count more?

I have no clue who the other 15 people are - but I know who he is.

Has to count for something.