Why stretching may be hurting your running economy.

OK ill be the one to say.... damn she fit!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you see wejo's XC video??? wrote:

Salazar has run like crap ever since his heart stopped for 14 minutes.

He has tried Androgel and Cytomel…and he still sucks.

So, you're basically saying that due to health problems he can't run now? 🤔

Did you see wejo's XC video??? wrote:

Alberto is also now on very thin ice with this USADA investigation by Travis Tygart going on... and on... and on... and on...

They've been saying that for years now. How long has this investigation been going on for? 3 years or so?...and nothing from USADA on anything that would warrant punitive action. WADA never wasted much time with the Russian doping scandal - once they received the ARD-recordings, it was full throttle with the investigation and punitive action followed quickly.

Did you see wejo's XC video??? wrote:

It never ends.

It looks like the investigation is at a deadend...and is about to "end."

I'll say this: there is a wrong way to stretch, and it's likely pretty common. Back when I was in high school, we were so competitive on the track team that we'd see who could stretch the farthest prior to workouts. I remember actually experiencing pain, and thinking it was beneficial. A few years back I read something about what I'll term "kinetic stretching," because I forget the exact term used. Basically, it's stretching but with little holding of poses, and certainly not to the point of pain, as I'd been taught. It's a real common sense approach to stretching: Just loosen up to the point that you're ready to run. I've found I have more energy on runs because I didn't expend it stretching, and, again, less pain.

Dynamic stretching is good, static stretching fairly useless. Unless a runner is getting injured from a lack of ROM, there is no point static stretching.

I have been hardcore about stretching my whole running life. My experience is those that don't get injuried more. Now i started out as a static stretcher in high school and once i learned i switched to active before runs and static after. So this winter i experimented with not stretching after for a few months and just started again this past week and its a big difference to me in how i feel the next day and my runs are even a little faster. Stretching works!

ExuberanceBlog wrote:

Check out this post on why runners may be stretching too much and why decreased stretching could help with your running economy.

https://exuberanceblog.com/2017/03/10/want-improved-running-economy-stop-stretching/

Ok, I'm going to pick through your arguments-

The study you first cited you make the claim of hamstring flexibility ("In other words, the harder it was for a runner to touch his toes, the more economical his running was") however when reading the study, the statistical significance was found in Dorsiflexion values and Standing Hip External Rotation. Additionally, the study itself is garbage as it doesn't say anything about the stretching habits of the runners so we don't know if they are optimizing their own ability. LASTLY- the study concludes with "With this point in mind, runners should beware of concluding that general inflexibility is distance-running performance."

You consistently confused mobility and flexibility throughout your post.

Study #2 you reference had a very weird VO2 max protocol of 1 minute stages, not sure of the validity of this as 2 minute stages is generally accepted due to physiological responses. I also don't agree with how the authors use running economy conclusions when it was not measured in the study itself. Overall, just a crap study that didn't tell anyone anything new.

The concept behind this science is that you want tendon and muscle stiffness. Flexibility will not diminish this, hyper-flexibility will. Want to increase stiffness? Run more, do more plyometrics, lift heavy.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Did you see wejo's XC video??? wrote:

Salazar has run like crap ever since his heart stopped for 14 minutes.

He has tried Androgel and Cytomel…and he still sucks.

Alberto also stretched too much and ruined his already really sh*tty running economy.

Alberto is also now on very thin ice with this USADA investigation by Travis Tygart going on... and on... and on... and on...

Travis just never stops.

It never ends.

No, it does end. It ends while confessing in person while seated on Oprah's couch.

Hardly. Don't you remember Marion Jones' couch session?

Some people say wrote:

Mobility and flexibility are different things. For running, you want mobility but not much flexibility.

Wow, I don't think you know what you are talking about. Being flexible is incredibly important for knee lift and overall running efficiency. Less flexible runners have to fight harder to get their legs to turn over.

As an example, I did some strides the other day after about 2 years... I was unable to fully unwind my legs because I am less flexible. It literally feels like your legs hit a wall and will not go past a certain point.

1tsamazing wrote:

"kinetic stretching" Basically, it's stretching but with little holding of poses, and certainly not to the point of pain, as I'd been taught. It's a real common sense approach to stretching: Just loosen up to the point that you're ready to run.

I believe this is the the right perspective based on experience and whatever I've read and learned from others. Loosen up & muscles warm.

john utah wrote:

1tsamazing wrote:

"kinetic stretching" Basically, it's stretching but with little holding of poses, and certainly not to the point of pain, as I'd been taught. It's a real common sense approach to stretching: Just loosen up to the point that you're ready to run.

I believe this is the the right perspective based on experience and whatever I've read and learned from others. Loosen up & muscles warm.

This is what our fellow mammals/animals do. They all stretch, but none hold it for extended periods and I doubt any do it to the point of pain.

sbeefyk1 wrote:

Some people say wrote:

Mobility and flexibility are different things. For running, you want mobility but not much flexibility.

Wow, I don't think you know what you are talking about. Being flexible is incredibly important for knee lift and overall running efficiency. Less flexible runners have to fight harder to get their legs to turn over.

As an example, I did some strides the other day after about 2 years... I was unable to fully unwind my legs because I am less flexible. It literally feels like your legs hit a wall and will not go past a certain point.

Mobility involves more than just flexibility.

Mobility is a combination of muscle strength, balance, flexibility, and coordination. After two years you are likely lacking in all of those categories which would explain why your strides felt so stiff.

Mobility is a little different than flexibility.

https://www.fix.com/blog/flexibility-mobility-stability/

So you can work on mobility without flexibility, and vice versa. So you have hurdle mobility which is really just hip mobility, but it is not stretching out muscles in the hip.

Running economy can also be improved through neural muscular strength training.

sbeefyk1 wrote:

Some people say wrote:

Mobility and flexibility are different things. For running, you want mobility but not much flexibility.

Wow, I don't think you know what you are talking about. Being flexible is incredibly important for knee lift and overall running efficiency. Less flexible runners have to fight harder to get their legs to turn over.

As an example, I did some strides the other day after about 2 years... I was unable to fully unwind my legs because I am less flexible. It literally feels like your legs hit a wall and will not go past a certain point.

That's weakness.

SkyRunner.Flagstaff.RunnerTeam wrote:

Why did you think that 508 seconds was 6:28 pace in the other thread???

The correct answer is 8:28 pace…which you finally figured out…and then you corrected yourself.

Did you forget that there are 60 seconds in a minute???

Why are you writing to this guy about this.

I am the one who messed that up, but I am not the guy you are posting to here, you nutcase!

I ran my highest mileage ever last year and eventually got injured running a workout too fast. I stretched and things kept getting worse, saw on the Socdoc where he said to stop stretching. So I stopped stretching and my hamstring issue has slowly started too heal. You can over stretch your muscles which can lead to injury as well. Runners don't need to stretch so much as they need to fix their imbalances.

ExuberanceBlog wrote:

But think about it: Why would running cause a physiological adaptation that was bad for running? We know that every other physiological adaptation to running is good for running. Increased bone density, increased muscle glycogen storage, increased muscle mitochondria density, reduced body fat stores—all good. Why would these helpful adaptations be accompanied by one—reduced flexibility—that is not?

The answer, of course, is that the effect of running on flexibility is not hurtful but is in fact helpful like the others.]

This passage is definitely taken from somewhere else. The Lore of Running? The Science of Sport blog? Something Steve Magness wrote? It is not original writing.

Anyone else remember the source?

Cruz is clearly clueless about orthotics then.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

ExuberanceBlog wrote:

Check out this post on why runners may be stretching too much and why decreased stretching could help with your running economy.

https://exuberanceblog.com/2017/03/10/want-improved-running-economy-stop-stretching/

I was at an event put on by on by Joachim Cruz and he lamenting that all these athletes were doing yoga and pilates. Their performances didn’t improve and they were always injured. Cruz said that when he was at his best he was completely unflexible. He claims that was common among elites. I believe in range of motion exercises but you can overstretch particularly your hamstrings.

The other thing Cruz hated was orthotics he claimed that Kenyans had the flattest feet out.

If your not fast, stretch as much as you'd like.

If you are a fast 400 800 15/16/miler don't waste your God given talent by forever stretching your hammies, calfs, and glutes. ---You'll end up lengthening your muscles too much and lose your fast "springs"

Stretch hammies under load (seated cable rows)

For tight calfs, run warm-ups and warm downs on grass or sand.

Drink more.

Yoga is good for the rest of body but don't think that being able to lay your chest on your knees is going to help your running one bit. (Or protect you from muscle pulls!!---"longer" muscles pull just the same btw!!) The opposite in fact.

Unless of course you're a slow runneresponse or non track athlete (jogger), then having tight or loose hammies won't affect performance anyways.

copied verbatim? wrote:

ExuberanceBlog wrote:

But think about it: Why would running cause a physiological adaptation that was bad for running? We know that every other physiological adaptation to running is good for running. Increased bone density, increased muscle glycogen storage, increased muscle mitochondria density, reduced body fat stores—all good. Why would these helpful adaptations be accompanied by one—reduced flexibility—that is not?

The answer, of course, is that the effect of running on flexibility is not hurtful but is in fact helpful like the others.]

This passage is definitely taken from somewhere else. The Lore of Running? The Science of Sport blog? Something Steve Magness wrote? It is not original writing.

Anyone else remember the source?