Bottom line: we don't need another Columbia situation here, or worse - a Toledo situation.
Bottom line: we don't need another Columbia situation here, or worse - a Toledo situation.
I saw the WOW video on Flotrack when it was posted. I found the 'hands-on' approach toward the runner with stomach issues to be a little creepy, but I was pre-conditioned to see it as 'creepy' due to all the chatter about the video. Apparently the Flotrack crew who recorded it (and saw it in context) did not think anything was wrong - for if they did, they would also in a sense be guilty for not reporting the possibility of sexual abuse to Harvard. So, perhaps if I were there, and saw the 'event' in context, it may very well have looked very innocent. My guess is that since that runners' parents have not pulled her from the team, they all probably believe there was nothing abusive or creepy about the incident.
The drop in lady runners with a new coach coming on board is not unusual (as many mention on this board). Some like his gung-ho attitude, and others think it is "too much." Fine. If I were Harvard, I would basically do two things: (1) let him know that Harvard is watching his personal behavior closely, and (2) tell him to stick with his training plan, recruit more good runners, and keep improving the team.
BTW, Gompers was an accomplished runner - qualified for the Olympic marathon trials back in 80s. Still, given that he has a daughter on the team, Harvard should not have asked him to co-author the report because now it will give off the stench of bias.
There is no question that WD is a good coach
If he really has so many injured athletes, how is that good coaching? Any fool can ask for more, upon more, upon more. The athletes will certainly improve, till they break. That's not good coaching.
I think the Crimson article is clear that the University did a Title IX review and that human resources hired an outside firm to do the University report.
"The controversy surrounding the video ultimately led Emily J. Miller, the College’s Title IX Coordinator, to begin a brief review of the team, though that investigation changed hands after Thanksgiving. A representative from the Faculty of Arts and Sciences human resources department hired an outside investigator “to look into multiple allegations involving the team,†according to emails obtained by The Crimson."
"After Thanksgiving, the FAS human resources department took over the investigation from Miller, according to emails obtained by The Crimson. Gary P. Cormier, director of human resources consulting in FAS, and William Hoch, an independent legal consultant, were tasked with reviewing the program.
By Dec. 9, Hoch had begun contacting current and former athletes to discuss the team. In an email to a former cross country runner, Hoch described himself as “an independent investigator hired by Harvard to look into multiple allegations involving the team.†Hoch also wrote that he and Cormier hoped to speak with over 20 former and current athletes.
Ten people interviewed for the investigation said that in meetings with Hoch he asked for their perspectives on team culture and coaching within the program.
Hoch declined to comment on the investigation or its results."
I think that makes the process fair to the coaches.
RE: W-D injury rates. If this is so, then perhaps he is not such a great coach. But he does get results when it matters, which saves him face with the AD.
Too bad NCAA basketball players don't post on here. Anyone catch the end of the Florida game? After the game winning shot, during the interview, the head coach hugged his player and smacked his butt. Anyone think the coach will get fired? No. Anyone think the coach will get a complaint filed? No. Maybe some millennial should right an article about that coach complaining they work too hard, he smacks their butts, shows them affection in the face of victory, and now have made the elite 8.
Wales-Dinan had to leave Williams due to having a serious relationship with one of his athletes. You think he would be smart enough to not get himself in trouble at an even more renown institution such as Harvard.
I'm surprised Harvard just doesn't bag him and move on. He is not the head coach and seems to be causing much more trouble than he is worth.
He is also supposedly the Cross Country / Mid-Distance & Distance Coach for Men and Women, but his social media accounts are just purely distance girls. Kind of odd.
From the article, it sounds like Harvard did not ask the two professors author a report
While I agree that the appropriateness of WD contact is the most troubling aspect in this story, I believe his training approach is troubling as well. The argument that it "gets results" is a logical fallacy--there is always the possibility that with a different training approach, Harvard could have had more success.
I have a problem with coaches that use the humpty dumpty approach...recruit a lot of runners, create an ambitious training plan for them, then whichever ones aren't injured at the end (whichever eggs aren't cracked), then that is your varsity squad. This is a failure of the most basic functions of a coach. Unfortunately, it smacks of what has been speculated already...this approach is born out of the desire to look at athletes as resources to serve the interests of the coach and not the coach serving the athlete. Too many HS programs win state titles through "athletic darwinism" and not coaching.
The audacity to suggest that more success can come from ethical coaching commitments than by the "win at all costs" mentality is sure to challenge the delicate sensibilities many LRC posters.
Alumm wrote:
The feeling was, in the words of the host athletes, that since WD was not married, they were not sure if he was in a good position to fit their training into their lives--running was his entire world when it was only a part of theirs. This situation was confirmed when I asked about whether my athlete would have the opportunity to attend church Sunday mornings. The word was that regular attendance at church would not really have been a possibility.
I can appreciate your well thought out response...but your girl may not want to run DI (like, real DI) if Church on Sunday mornings is a big priority for her. I am not familiar with a single DI program that doesn't practice most Sunday mornings outside of maybe BYU, Liberty, etc...we are very up front with the rare kid who asks - if that's an issue, definitely do not come here no matter how good you are.
And a women's team who rationalizes their male coach's perceived overzealous training/team expectations because he's not married is not the kind of team your girl wants to be a part of - unless she doesn't want to be on a competitive team. I've heard that time & time again from women's teams who do not want to compete at a high level.
Again, if these ladies are trying to get PWD fired, the last route they want to go is the "he expects too much" route. Now, if there are hallmark "grooming" techniques being employed...
First, any guy who's gotta hyphenated last name or makes his up (see Sandusky, Jerry coach) is immediately suspect.
Second, why doesn't a PC place like Hahhh-Vudd, have a woman of color as the head coach?
Re: PWD leaving Williams due to having a relationship with an athlete...is that common knowledge? It certainly adds a level of creepiness to the Flotrack video.
This sounds more like a personal opinion than an objective assessment of DI athletics. I was in contact with the coach of every program she considered and asked the church question, not as a deal-breaker, but for more information (this also alleviated her from asking the question avoiding any snap judgments on the coach's part). Every program other than Harvard said that this could be accommodated. She committed to a power 5 program more nationally competitive than Harvard and the coach has no problem with her church-going. She is a 4.0 student from a competitive prep school, in bed by 9:30pm, socially well adjusted, healthy, and has no problem with 6-8 training sessions per week including trainer visits, S&C, etc. She would have no problem showing up at 5am to complete her Sunday session to be at church by 11am.
Are you telling me, that if a nationally competitive girl showed interest in your program and asked for an alternative to practicing during church time on Sundays you would say, "move along" (or some nicer equivalent)? It is fairly common practice to make certain accommodations for alternate practice times during the week when course schedule conflicts cannot be avoided. To not make a reasonable accommodation for the practice of religion drifts into some legally mirky waters. As a former Army Chaplain, working in an extreme environments where the needs of the mission always came first, there was still considerable accommodations made even for the Wiccan who wanted to dance around "skyclad" in a combat environment. I coached DI myself for a brief time and never saw significant conflicts with church commitments.
I apologize for the defensive tone of this post, I am trying to wrap my mind around what--in my mind at least--seems like an unnecessary rigidity in training design.
It was common knowledge that PWD had a relationship with an athlete, who was a sophomore at the time. There was discussion about this on the Letsrun boards, but that was taken down. PWD is now marrying this athlete (Annie Dear), so make of that what you will.
PWD also created a similar environment at Williams that he has apparently created at Harvard. A few athletes bought into his "vision" and trained hard and ran great for a bit. Dear had the top 5000 D3 time her sophomore year and then broke her leg competing at nationals. Jen Gossels, a PWD devotee, won the 5K and 10K at D3 nationals wher eDar broke her leg. When PWD was fired that summer, Dear and Gossels quit the Williams team and followed PWD to Duke and spent a semester there, where PWD was a volunteer assistant coach. Another PWD athlete stayed and won D3 nationals XC the next year, but was sidelined with injury, illness, burnout and never ran well again and quit the team.
It was amazing to me that Harvard hired PWD. Did they not do any due diligence? The inappropriate relationship is one thing, but the intensity he brought to the program is another. PWD seemed like a very poor fit for Harvard, given what happened at Williams.
Alumm wrote:
Are you telling me, that if a nationally competitive girl showed interest in your program and asked for an alternative to practicing during church time on Sundays you would say, "move along" (or some nicer equivalent)?
Yes. This is what I am saying. And have done so because there are always at least a dozen others just like her (talent-wise) if I'm doing my job right (and I have done it well). If she's not willing to research other church options on Saturday or Sunday afternoon/evening (very common these days & perfectly fine by me - I'll even help), then she's one that's going to use other excuses to get out of team commitments when they inconvenience her. I've been down that road enough at a few different mid-major & P5 schools over the last 10+ years to know better now.
No offense taken & your post doesn't come off overly defensive, I have a feeling we would agree on a fair amount in person regarding this issue. This just isn't one of them...and I agree that it was best your girl avoided Harvard but not for the reasons you gave...
He was more tender with the Harvard athlete with the cramp in the Flotrack video than he looks to be with his fiance in this wedding (in Small Point, ME LOL) promo picture. What's the camping stuff doing on a bridal registry? LMFAO
Also, many coaches are willing to tell that top girl anything they want to hear in the recruiting process & then switch once they get to the school, at least on seemingly relatively minor issues. I am not one of them & if nothing else, sounds like PWD at least isn't one of them either.
Seriously, to totally dismiss a runner because they are asking about church on Sundays is crazed. How long do Sunday practices take anyway? Most religions have multiple services over a weekend anyway, certainly something could be managed. Also, if a kid was asking about hitting church on weekends, I'd think they're a fairly stable/mature kid. These "all-in" coaches crack my up sometimes. I hear stories about HS kids being disuaded from going on family Spring-Break trips, Christmas trips, please, get over yourselves coaches. Family time should be considered sacred to coaches. Of course there always the kid who fouls this up by always being away, but zero tolerance laws are typically proven ridiculous.
Alumm wrote:
While I agree that the appropriateness of WD contact is the most troubling aspect in this story, I believe his training approach is troubling as well. The argument that it "gets results" is a logical fallacy--
Phallus, see!
Aspirant wrote:
Bottom line: we don't need another Columbia situation here, or worse - a Toledo situation.
We don't need another g.d. Oxbow Incident either!