If you wanted to train kinda hard but party harder shoulda gone DIII.
If you wanted to train kinda hard but party harder shoulda gone DIII.
conflicted wrote:
ALittleHelpHere wrote:What did happen in that Flotrack video?
He was very touchy with one of his athletes. Putting his arm around her bare waist and holding her...rubbing her back. She was supposedly not feeling well. But if he's like that even when a camera is on him, makes one wonder
Also had a picture of her sleeping posted, and some weird tweets some of which were deleted and the girl in question put all her social media on private
The only real story here is that Harvard let a women's team drop numbers in spite of title 9. D1 coaches expecting their athletes to be "all-in"? The horror!
@everyone on this thread
It should also be noted that Leiberman and Gompers are team fellows: a role that is meant to support athletes and coaches, maybe paid to do so.
In addition, Gompers was a strong D-1 runner at Harvard. As a former runner and a current fellow and a faculty member, he probably has a pretty good idea of what is right - and what is wrong in the current situation. He certainly has waaay more perspective than any of us. And the current athletes/ex-athletes and current coaches.
It will be interesting to see what the Administration does here.
Ummm excuse me my nanny/maid's name was Raquel NOT Consuela. Get your facts straight.
Read the article.
D1 athletics is not a run club. You need to go to practice every day and work hard. If you can't commit fully don't do it.
Sounds like HS spoiled brats who want to show up when they want.
Whatever info they have, if any, is being kept very hush hush. I don't think that their is anything wrong with his philosophy. It's a D1 program. Working kids hard is not a crime. Heck, I bet the runners at CU or Oregon run just as much. That's what it takes.
BUT clearly this investigation is not occurring just because a coach is getting results and pushing his athletes. I think this has more to do with some other things (sexual assault, comments about weight etc. etc.) which are supported by the FloTrack video as well as the fact that like 6 people, or whatever it was, have stress fractures. That's absolutely crazy! Whatever is happening to cause this is obviously an issue. Seriously, how do that many people get a stress fracture? It's insane.
no hate here wrote:
Matt Fitzgerald and Shalane Flanagan would probably get fired as a head coaches if they asked the ladies to read their books on ideal racing weight and how to eat. They would complain that Matt and Shalane are asking them "to lose WHAT THEY CONSIDER to be an unhealthy amount of weight." And then some administrator would say they are threatening the physical safety of the students.
Sounds like he is probably asking the ladies for 50-60 mpw (when they might have been used to 35 mpw), eat healthy, cross-train, and get some sleep. Then students claim that this means they have to be "all in," and that he is invading their lives. Do they know Nick Saban has the diet of several of his players monitored very closely? Saban wouldn't last a day at Harvard (but nor would he want to).
Point is - he's got a good solid number of distance runners who are thriving under his coaching. He is winning championships. Let him recruit more with clear expectations of the workload, and see if he can keep bringing championships to Harvard.
Actually, Shalane does have a stress fracture right now. Not sure if she is an expert on ideal race weight
As a female runner at a "little ivy" school, I have a couple high school friends who run ivy league. I have a heard a few things that are quite disturbing. Can someone answer this hypothetical question? When is it OK for a male coach to continually and consistently massage their female athletes? Not a one time thing, not a massage-out-a painful-charlie horse or tweaked hammy single event here. Call me crazy. I would never let my coach touch me nor would my teammates. He would not even try to. (Lie. We may high-five now and then). We have trainers for that. Talk about awkward, just plain wrong, creepy, inappropriate, gross. And other people see this going on? Adults?What on earth is going on. This seems like a no-brainer to me. Ok, I just answered my own hypothetical question. What is Harvard waiting for? A lawsuit?
Ivy League schools have many advantages in recruiting, athletic scholarships or not. Their reservoir of student funding is essentially limitless.
Just as Oregon and Stanford can circumvent athletic scholarship limits, so can the Ivies.
Glad I was rejected by Harvard wrote:
As a female runner at a "little ivy" school, I have a couple high school friends who run ivy league. I have a heard a few things that are quite disturbing. Can someone answer this hypothetical question? When is it OK for a male coach to continually and consistently massage their female athletes? Not a one time thing, not a massage-out-a painful-charlie horse or tweaked hammy single event here. Call me crazy. I would never let my coach touch me nor would my teammates. He would not even try to. (Lie. We may high-five now and then). We have trainers for that. Talk about awkward, just plain wrong, creepy, inappropriate, gross. And other people see this going on? Adults?What on earth is going on. This seems like a no-brainer to me. Ok, I just answered my own hypothetical question. What is Harvard waiting for? A lawsuit?
^ This
Really!!! How many parents do you know that are impartial and able to look at all sides pertaining to their children?
Glad I was rejected by Harvard wrote:
As a female runner at a "little ivy" school, I have a couple high school friends who run ivy league. I have a heard a few things that are quite disturbing. Can someone answer this hypothetical question? When is it OK for a male coach to continually and consistently massage their female athletes? Not a one time thing, not a massage-out-a painful-charlie horse or tweaked hammy single event here. Call me crazy. I would never let my coach touch me nor would my teammates. He would not even try to. (Lie. We may high-five now and then). We have trainers for that. Talk about awkward, just plain wrong, creepy, inappropriate, gross. And other people see this going on? Adults?What on earth is going on. This seems like a no-brainer to me. Ok, I just answered my own hypothetical question. What is Harvard waiting for? A lawsuit?
So if you label someone a trainer they can "continually and consistently" massage you, but if it's your coach now it's just plain wrong, creepy, inappropriate and gross. I admit I've been conditioned to see similarly, but I'm not sure that actually makes sense unless there is some sort of sexual attraction you have towards your coach or vice-versa you are aware of.
You have got to love the slant of a spoiled child. Adapt or move on. Your future boss will love that you had to grow up.
I am sorry that you had to go through all of the s$*^ you went through, but be careful about drawing such lines. Get some help.
Exactly. But wow. Just wow. I am a bit in shock with this reply. It seems obvious. One is professionally trained and certified to perform massage. It's what he or she does for a living. It's in the job description. Would you let your orthopedist perform a pelvic exam? Or a prostate exam if you are male? (Yes they may have been trained to some degree to do them in med school, but it's not their job/specialty.) Case closed.
Alumm wrote:
I am a coach of a female athlete WD actively recruited for this coming fall. I even attended the invitation-only junior day with my athlete and her family. First, I was impressed with WD stated objectives and coaching philosophy. I have stolen chunks of it and have incorporated it into my approach. Secondly, my runner chose not to pursue Harvard because of the personal feedback she received from the athletes with whom she lodged. The consistent feedback she received was that the program overshadowed everything. The feeling was, in the words of the host athletes, that since WD was not married, they were not sure if he was in a good position to fit their training into their lives--running was his entire world when it was only a part of theirs. This situation was confirmed when I asked about whether my athlete would have the opportunity to attend church Sunday mornings. The word was that regular attendance at church would not really have been a possibility.
Admittedly, this is second hand--even third hand at times--information. I share this only because I have a personal ax to grind with coaches that reduce an athlete's life to just running. Olympic champions can be husbands, fathers, students, or even chess players. I believe that, while excellence requires an uncommon commitment to one's discipline, it should define anyone. Athletics is not a career...it is an opportunity; a window that will close sooner than one wants. If it is not used to propel you into the next phase of life, then it is a waste of time. Kipsang and Gebreselaisse are businessmen, Korir and Ryun became politicians...I have a feeling that these Harvard athletes have bigger goals than track. Excellence in track and XC can definitely prepare one for great things after that window closes, but it cannot define one's being...those who fail to learn this lesson are doomed to become coaches who drive his or her athletes to achievement beyond what they were able to do.
Throughly enjoyed reading this. Gave me confirmation that someone else believes the same that I do about the sport while in school.
I think this will settle out soon after recruits of the former coach leave the team and recruits of Wales Dinan move onto the team. Most want that life balance, a few want that obsessive drive.
Well, not sure it will ever settle. He is training them beyond their abilities and demanding more than they have to give. He can massage them and tell them he cares, but he only cares to the extent that they can make him look good.
Each year he will bring in a new class and a new star will replace the burned out previous star, this year it is Judy Pendergast replacing Courtney Smith (remember her, where is she?), next year it will be someone else else and on and on.
At some point they will figure out that they are pawns in his game.
I think the arguments against Wales Donna that revolve around how much he expects the girls to commit are (up to a point) not material. This is D1 athletics, and there is a certain standard that one must meet in terms of time and effort devoted to the sport. I agree, however, that it would be too much to dictate every aspect of girls' lives. People can get a great deal of training done and still enjoy a rich academic and social life.
But it does sound as though W-D may be engaging in certain suspect or shady behaviors. The social media posts, messaging, and physical contact that has been documented are all concerning to me. For that matter, so too is the fact that he is engaged to a former athlete - although if married life reigns him in that doesn't matter all that much.
There is no question that WD is a good coach; I've been extremely impressed by the Harvard results of late and equally disappointed when I learned these performances may come along with certain inappropriate behaviors. Just have him clean up his act and things should be ok.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion