Is Kevin Young WR the greatest in athletics?

Kevin Young ran 12 steps for 2 hurdle segments in the final. He actually ran an 11 step segment in the quarterfinal. The video goes to slow motion and counts the steps!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuGoYyyjqqg

Gulp

Hurdler Observer wrote:

~ WR holder for 25 years and counting, the best men of today are running ~ 1s slower

~ nobody else has run under 47.00

~ he's 0.24 ahead of the next mark which comes from the almost unbeaten Edwin Moses

~ he hits the last hurdle in the race

~ he celebrates before crossing the finish line.

i am still amazed by his stride that day.

Amazing to think he could've gone even faster maybe 0.1-0.2 under.

and ridiculous that he's never done faster than 45.11 for the 400m. What kind of 400m shape he was that day??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH_6YE8TNrQ

His coach was a drug user back in the 1970s, after Kevin Young we learn that Maurice Green was taking HGH and EPO, this record should be scrapped. Sadly.

PunctureWound wrote:For what it's worth the top five post-random testing, non-throwing WR scores are

1. Bolt 100m

2. Bolt 200m

3. G. Dibaba 1500m

4. Ayana 10K

5. Powell LJ

Where are you getting the scores from? Scores from the IAAF scoring table are supposed to compare within gender, not between.

Young's record in not even close to the top WR scores. In fact if you rank them it would probably fall below the mean.

Right now Bolt's records, and take your pick, are the most impressive by a long shot.

Speaking of shot, why is Randy Barnes shot record still in the books? He has a lifetime ban. All lifetime ban athletes should have all their marks banned with them.

I agree. However I must confess that with the "invasion" of Kenyans in this event it is very likely to fall within the next three years. Probably even by the end of this year.

itsokyoutried wrote:

DMulvee wrote:

No. The men's long jump is way more impregnable.

In 2016 the best 400mH time was 46.78. This is 2.24% away from the world record.

In 2016 the best long jump in the world was 8.58m. This is 4.13% away from the world record, and this was the longest jump since 2009.

Try again. Only one person even ran under 48 in the hurdles in 2016...

I wrote the world record for the 400mH rather than the best time in 2016 (47.73). 4 people broke 48 in the Olympic final.

if you consider the IAAF scores as the absolute truth and unique criteria to rank the WRs then you are right. But i don't.

FirehouseSubs wrote:

Young's record in not even close to the top WR scores. In fact if you rank them it would probably fall below the mean.

Right now Bolt's records, and take your pick, are the most impressive by a long shot.

Speaking of shot, why is Randy Barnes shot record still in the books? He has a lifetime ban. All lifetime ban athletes should have all their marks banned with them.

Inclusive of all eras/PEDs or not (except Chinese women)

1. Bolt 100m

2. Bolt 200m

3. Komen 3000m

4. FloJo 100m

5. Rudisha 800m (I believe this WR is way underrated, will stand for long time)

6. Barnes SPut

7. Koch w400m

8. El G 1500m

9. Dibaba 1500m

10. Bekele 5000m

Hurdler Observer wrote:

~ WR holder for 25 years and counting, the best men of today are running ~ 1s slower

~ nobody else has run under 47.00

~ he's 0.24 ahead of the next mark which comes from the almost unbeaten Edwin Moses

~ he hits the last hurdle in the race

~ he celebrates before crossing the finish line.

i am still amazed by his stride that day.

Amazing to think he could've gone even faster maybe 0.1-0.2 under.

and ridiculous that he's never done faster than 45.11 for the 400m. What kind of 400m shape he was that day??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH_6YE8TNrQ

Kevin was without a doubt better than a (45.11) 400m runner. He was running 44 relay splits when he was in the NCAA. I don't recall Kevin running a significant 400m after he started winning hurdles races.

Pat and Jan wrote:

Inclusive of all eras/PEDs or not (except Chinese women)

1. Bolt 100m

2. Bolt 200m

3. Komen 3000m

4. FloJo 100m

5. Rudisha 800m (I believe this WR is way underrated, will stand for long time)

6. Barnes SPut

7. Koch w400m

8. El G 1500m

9. Dibaba 1500m

10. Bekele 5000m

What kind of subjective give list is this? If you are including pre-random testing WRs or presumed drugged ones than Gabriele Reinsch, who has the highest result score, is number one without a doubt.

Her discus WR is a farther distance than the men's discus WR. She's a woman (presumably). Wrap your mind around that. And it's not a little further, it's way further. Granted the women throw lighter disc, but still there is no precedent. It is the only WR ever where the women's mark is superior to the men's. The women also throw a much lighter shot put, but those WRs both correspond the same male/female gap as the average event.

If you are including all re ords then Reinsch is only eclipsed by Martina Hellmann, who beat her record three time in one day but it was not rarified

Pat and Jan wrote:

Inclusive of all eras/PEDs or not (except Chinese women)

1. Bolt 100m

2. Bolt 200m

3. Komen 3000m

4. FloJo 100m

5. Rudisha 800m (I believe this WR is way underrated, will stand for long time)

6. Barnes SPut

7. Koch w400m

8. El G 1500m

9. Dibaba 1500m

10. Bekele 5000m

2. Could be broken at altitude.

5. Rudisha's record will last 10-15 years before being shaved.

6. Shotput will be be broken, because the discus spin has come into shotput and it adds about a metre, so 'cleaner' throwers can now get close to this dirty record.

8. The 1500/mile can be shave, hence Kiprop's 3:26.

Untouchable:

Womens Shot Put

7. Koch w400m (Untouchable by an actual woman)

3. Komen

4. FloJo 100m

10. Bekele's records are Untouchable if ABP continues in place and improves (unless DNA altering comes in)

Women's heptathlon

Womens discus

Womens LJ

Womens HJ

Men's Discus

Men's 400h

I think the men's 400m

I know the man personally and he is not a doper, one of the most humble people I know and he's a great role model

Komen Fan wrote:

Though it's run infrequently, i say Komen 3k. Bekele, geb, el g, 3 of the greatest (perhaps the 3 greatest ever) all went after it and couldn't touch it. At the very least, it's the greatest distance record on the books.

I don't really recall Bekele ever going for the 3k WR, and I've seen probably every race he's ever ran, his PR I believe was off a 2:25 last K and 5 flat first 2k..

The 400 hurdle record is definitely not the strongest, it is strong and underrated, but there are at least 5 other records I would put ahead of it. Bolt's 100m record is probably the strongest and all of the men's distance records 1500/3/k/5k/10k are very strong. Over the last decade, the 400 hurdles has been like the long jump, it is not getting the best athletes. Clement is the only 400m hurdler who's a legit sub-45 400m sprinter, if you can't run sub-45 in the 400m, there is no way you are going to run sub-47 in the hurdlers. When we start seeing a lot of sub-45 400m sprinters running the hurdles, the record will come down.

Dr Detriot wrote:

Yes for men. There are a bunch of untouchable women's sprint records from the 80s because of the drugs.

There are STILL Performing Enhancing Drugs in 2017 and probably always will be, ALSO the Current drugs are probably superior to the 1980's drugs as once something is created it is easy to make more and the people who are making the PED's look for ways to improve on what works, so the PED's currently are at Minimum equal to the 1980 drugs and as most things are improved on, same goes with PED's.

In Summary an Athlete in 2017 who is morally and ethically bankrupt can use PED's that are FAR Superior to what his cheating predecessors had in the 1980's.

Women's discus is by far the strongest. Nobody has been within 5m of it. And the girl who has gotten the closest has completely dominated the modern era. Womens shot put is also pretty safe with a good meter separating it from the most dominant modern woman aswell. Eve. Modern drug cheats aren't close to either.

With the men shot put will fall in before the next Olympics. Mens disc was within a couple centimeters so it is not unreasonable to assume good conditions will help it out. Mens hammer may stand for a long time as the nature of the event has changed drastically from the 80s even though twice busted athlete broke or missed by a cm.

Women's discus will never be touched.

douglas burke wrote:

In Summary an Athlete in 2017 who is morally and ethically bankrupt can use PED's that are FAR Superior to what his cheating predecessors had in the 1980's.

No

Bad choice. It's not highly ranked among WRs. Some have pointed out the women's discus is the highest ranking WR. I can't speak on the history of that particular athlete, but it was at the apex of the steroid era. 1988 was just a horrible year for steroid abuse. Probably close to 5% , but that's just a guess, it may not be that high.

'88 was the reason they instituted random testing. So many steroid cheats. It became a rampant epidemic. Flo Jo, Carl Lewis, Ben Johnson were the high profile cheats. Records were falling left and right. Koch was a mid-80s doper. After her you saw more cheats that wanted to emulate her results. She obliterated some records. Her 400m farce record has still not been erased. That was '85 I believe.

So for those who have said throw out all record prior to random testing, which was the following year, 1989, I would agree with that. It would, I think, eliminate mostly women's farcical records like Flo Jo, Koch and this discus woman.