What about the 15 year old born in January and the 15 year old born in December? They are almost a year apart in age...
Not something I am going to lose sleep over to be quite honest.
What about the 15 year old born in January and the 15 year old born in December? They are almost a year apart in age...
Not something I am going to lose sleep over to be quite honest.
Looks like someone self-reported his own sockpuppets?
Snoops wrote:
Great idea- group them by age! They should call them "Age Group" records. How has this not been thought of until now?!?!?!
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Great idea- group them by age! They should call them "Age Group" records. How has this not been thought of until now?!?!?!
Only America cares about class records.
The rest of the world only cares about age. And when you factor in the different levels of physical development, that becomes less relevant too.
Let's see Ty Cooper run the Junior race at Great Edinborough and we'll see how he stacks up. He wouldn't even lead half a lap.
I'm going on a hunger strike until this is injustice resolved.
Or until noon when I go to lunch, whichever comes first.
The school system itself links student age to student grade. Remember the requirement that kids start kindergarten at 5 by 9/1 or so in most states. That is why it is not a confusion to assert that class records should be linked to age. The school system itself does it--though this is more and more under assault by those who hold their boys back for athletic reasons so that they can dominate against members of their own classes, set records, and get college scholarships by competing against younger athletes.
However, it is a legitimate point that even with a consistent age-grade system some kids will be significantly older and more mature because kids develop very quickly even in high school. As Malcolm Gladwell and others have shown, the dominant athletes in an age-based system are almost entirely the ones born in the first four months of the year, because they are more mature than the others, bigger, stronger, faster, and hence get more encouragement and more opportunities to play in many sports against higher level competition on all-star teams and so forth.
This issue is worse in basketball and football where they "redshirt" kids in 5th grade and hold them back a year so they can be older than other kids. AAU allows "grade exemptions" where a kid can play in a younger division if he's been held back in school. For example, Tyler Hansbrough won a national "10 and under" championship when he was nearly 12.
There is an age limit to it. but the grade exemption makes a 2 year difference between the youngest and oldest in the "age group".
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Wendyard wrote:Do you believe that it is fair to compare the times of one group of athletes (all previous national class record holders in the 400 meter dash who started the academic freshman year at age 14, to Cooper who started the academic freshman year at age 15 where he was older than most of the sophomores in his freshman year? I don't believe this being fair to any of the previous 400 meter dash national record holders who were 14 in their academic freshman year.
Great idea- group them by age! They should call them "Age Group" records. How has this not been thought of until now?!?!?!
They have their own set of issues.
Compare 2 kids:
One is born in July. When track season rolls around he is 14 years 10 months old
One is born in April. When track season rolls around he is 14 years, 1month old
You still have a big gap in maturity.
It doesn't matter what standard you pick. Somebody will think it is unfair to them. In the end the only records that matter are the senior ones. Everything else has a bunch of made up rules to try and level the playing field but not fully succeeding.
Wendy,
Start your own record system. Make up whatever rules you want for eligibility. Keep those records.
Problem solved.
If he's only a year older than he's supposed to be, he's doing much better than the struggles that colleges/world juniors have.
It is also upsetting to me that modern recordkeepers do not hold specific records to a carefully selected, well-informed set of criteria.
It may be time to determine class records by a specific age range.
However, I'm sure all in this thread agree that Cooper is a phenomenal athlete, a prodigy of track and field and we all wish him the best.
Well, it is what it is...
Even accepting all your complaints....
1. The records are NOT age group records.
2. Anyone could have some advantage at one time or another.
Do we discount any advantage current runners have over Obea Moore because of better shoes, better tracks, etc?
3. At what point do you draw a line? They are eligible for high school competition, so it should count.
Moore was only 5 months younger than Cooper when he set his record.
You can always find someone a few months older or younger.
4. You are not putting in the months when they started high school, only when they set the records.
starting at 14yr 11 mo is an advantage over starting a 14yr 1mo.
This really sounds like you have some sort of petty personal issue.
I totally agree with you. Tyrese Cooper began his high school freshman academic year at age 15. Tyrese Cooper is going to be one of the greatest High School Track and field athletes in American History. He is the last person who needs a 1 yr handicap to break national class records. He is already breaking national records. He doesn't need or want a handicap. He is just that good. He is going for world records. He is going to be a future Olympian. We all wish him and his coach the best . He is a fine athlete and an even better human being, but so were William Reed, Obie Moore, Elzie Coleman, Aldrich Bailey and Darrell Robinson who all started the freshman academic year at age 14.
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@Bro-Mama. You don't' need to restate the obvious. The point here is that the current system has allowed 1 athlete to be considered for national records who started the academic freshman year at age 15 when ALL of the other previous national class record holders in the 400 meter dash started the academic freshman year age 14. This gives that athlete a 1 yr handicap to break all of the national records.
His times at 15 are compared to all of the other athletes age 14. His times at age 16 are compared to all of the other athletes ate age 15. His times at 14 were compared to all of the other athletes at 13.
The age advantage is not just "some advantage" Theres isn't a bigger advantage than 1 yr of additional training, 1 year of additional physical maturity and 1 yr of psychological maturity.
When Obea Moore set the sophomore national record he was 16 yrs 6 months old. Tyrese Cooper gets until he is 17 yrs 5 1/2 months old to break Obea Moore sophomore national record. I think you can see that this is unfailr.
Obea Moore's birthday was Jan 10. He was 14 yrs 8 months old when he began his freshman academic year. Tyrese Cooper was 15 yrs 5 months old he he began his freshman academic year. William Reed was born April 1st. He was 14 yrs 5 months old when he began his freshman academic year....any entire year younger than Tyrese Cooper.
I think you can see that this is unfair.
Wendyard wrote:
Eventually what I would like to see are High School national class records confined to people entering the freshman class at age 14. Other athletes will be added depending on the age they started their academic year. This way everyone who started the academic year at age 14, regardless of class, will be grouped together. Everyone who began the academic year at the age of 15 will be grouped together. Everyone who began the academic year at age 16 will be grouped together. Everyone who began the academic year at 17 will be grouped together etc etc.
Okay but there is the issue of someone age 14 years 364 days as a freshman and someone else age 15 years 0 days when starting the academic year.
As a case in point a HS classmate of mine has held the age 15 miler world record since 1974. He was a 15 year old sophomore at the time and turned 16 about a month later. Other sophomores have bettered his time but they had already turned age 16.
The point is, starting an academic year at a certain age is not a guarantee of the age someone is when records are set. It is possible for two competitors in the same grade to be nearly one-year apart in age. That will always happen no matter what age is considered as the typical one for starting an academic year.
Amazing how people can waste their time on this kind of stuff. No one knows " King Ches's " real age. Guess that makes him a cheat too!
September 1st is the cutoff for the academic year in every state in the USA. This cut off that is used by every school system in the USA should by used as the the cut off age for athletes. The academic freshman year would be defined as being a 14 yr old with a birthday on or after Sept 1st. If you are 14 and born before Sept 1st then you are a sophomore.
you have started this thread on countless websites now and refuse to listen to anyone who brings up a valid point and on the milesplit system you continue to edit your posts whenever someone calls you out about something.
the age issue is never going to be addressed for class records, what is the difference between someone is 14 years and 11 months vs 15 years and 1 month? a significantly smaller gap compared to a 14 year 1 month individual expected to compete for the same record against a 14 year 9 month individual.
also in high school development plays a huge role, some people reach puberty earlier and are more developed at that time. should we have division for people who reach puberty at 13 vs people who reach puberty at 16? do we need to start measuring testosterone levels and athletes have to stay at within a certain range to set a record in high school??
what about training age? should we have division for those who have gone through training at the middle school level vs those who didn't start running until high school. what about someone who comes out there senior year? surely it is unfair for them to compete against someone who has been training for the past three years??
i expect you take up each of these injustices since that is your driving cause and I expect your well reasoned response
I think you can see that this is not about a particular athlete, but about what is fair and just. The playing field should be level, and it is not. I am sure you can see the current system isn't fair. Student Athletes who starts the academic year at age 14 should be grouped together for record purposes. Student Athletes who starts the academic year at age 15 should be grouped together for record purposes. Student Athletes who starts the academic year at age 16 should be grouped together for record purposes. Allowing students athletes who start the academic year at age 15 and 16 to be grouped with student athletes who start the academic year at age 14 for record purposes is unjust and unfair.