King Lukas was definitively faster in high school albeit a year older. Which Ches at17 titles and counting I wonder how many of those may have gone to LV had he stuck it out at Oregon.
King Lukas was definitively faster in high school albeit a year older. Which Ches at17 titles and counting I wonder how many of those may have gone to LV had he stuck it out at Oregon.
No, Edward was more talented. Lukas was training like a professional in high school; not as much room for improvement. Edward was undertrained.
smile wrote:
No, Edward was more talented. Lukas was training like a professional in high school; not as much room for improvement. Edward was undertrained.
Granted, Lukas's training was triathlon training, but his running seemed to benefit from it. During the short time he was at Oregon he wasn't running well.
smile wrote:
No, Edward was more talented. Lukas was training like a professional in high school; not as much room for improvement. Edward was undertrained.
He wasn't training like a professional runner though. I would guess 50 miles of running per week, plus the cycling and swimming.
As far as talent, I would say Verzbicas had much more as a high school runner. When he broke 4:00, it was windy, and not optimal temperatures, I would guess with pacers and great conditions like the most recent guys to break 4, Lukas could've run 3:57 high or 3:58 low.
Exactly!!
What if... wrote:
King Lukas was definitively faster in high school albeit a year older. Which Ches at17 titles and counting I wonder how many of those may have gone to LV had he stuck it out at Oregon.
I read on these boards that both Ben Saarel and Grant Fisher would have more titles than Cheserek. No one here knows what they are palavering about. Why even ask?
None. LV would have won zero titles in either cross country or track.
The reality wrote:
None. LV would have won zero titles in either cross country or track.
This ^
It was obvious in his one XC season at Oregon that he was in over his head. That's ultimately why he quit.
Oracle wrote:
What if... wrote:King Lukas was definitively faster in high school albeit a year older. Which Ches at17 titles and counting I wonder how many of those may have gone to LV had he stuck it out at Oregon.
I read on these boards that both Ben Saarel and Grant Fisher would have more titles than Cheserek. No one here knows what they are palavering about. Why even ask?
Wait, what are Chesereks best 1500 and 5000 times? Oh wait, the times are not even in the top 10 of current crop of runners? Who cares about him.
This Man wrote:
The reality wrote:None. LV would have won zero titles in either cross country or track.
This ^
It was obvious in his one XC season at Oregon that he was in over his head. That's ultimately why he quit.
Why do you think that is? Why didn't he have success in XC?
john utah wrote:
This Man wrote:This ^
It was obvious in his one XC season at Oregon that he was in over his head. That's ultimately why he quit.
Why do you think that is? Why didn't he have success in XC?
The way both he and the Oregon coaches went about his first season was completely ridiculous.
He had an extremely long season during his senior year. Cross country, he was double-national champion. Indoor track, he was triple-national champion. Outdoor track, he broke 4 and ran the 2-mile record. Post-Outdoor track, he went into full triathlon training and won World Juniors.
Only an idiot would have allowed him to go straight into the middle of cross country season like that, and the result is what we saw. You can't have a nearly year-long continuous season, peak, then throw yourself right into the middle of heavy training cycles and expect to perform. That he thought it was a good idea was already terrible. That his coaches thought the same was just absurd.
RedBloodSells wrote:
smile wrote:No, Edward was more talented. Lukas was training like a professional in high school; not as much room for improvement. Edward was undertrained.
He wasn't training like a professional runner though. I would guess 50 miles of running per week, plus the cycling and swimming.
As far as talent, I would say Verzbicas had much more as a high school runner. When he broke 4:00, it was windy, and not optimal temperatures, I would guess with pacers and great conditions like the most recent guys to break 4, Lukas could've run 3:57 high or 3:58 low.
I watched a video of the 2011 Dream Mile 1-2 years ago and I could've sworn that it was raining during the race.
That being said, LV's HS training was basically all aerobic (consequence of triathlons). He had little kick to speak of, and seemed to win all his races just by being so much faster over the distance that it didn't even matter that his competitors had kicks at all. Maybe he wouldn't have responded well to alternative training, but I think he would've been incredible if he were actually trained to develop a kick.
AHS wrote:
RedBloodSells wrote:He wasn't training like a professional runner though. I would guess 50 miles of running per week, plus the cycling and swimming.
As far as talent, I would say Verzbicas had much more as a high school runner. When he broke 4:00, it was windy, and not optimal temperatures, I would guess with pacers and great conditions like the most recent guys to break 4, Lukas could've run 3:57 high or 3:58 low.
I watched a video of the 2011 Dream Mile 1-2 years ago and I could've sworn that it was raining during the race.
That being said, LV's HS training was basically all aerobic (consequence of triathlons). He had little kick to speak of, and seemed to win all his races just by being so much faster over the distance that it didn't even matter that his competitors had kicks at all. Maybe he wouldn't have responded well to alternative training, but I think he would've been incredible if he were actually trained to develop a kick.
I was at the race. Conditions weren't great for spectating, but I don't think they would have been terrible to race in. It was around 60 degrees with a light drizzle and somewhat of a breeze, not ideal but nothing crazy either.
I saw LV in person. Seems like most would pick him to win more titles over King Ches due to skin color.
AHS wrote:
That being said, LV's HS training was basically all aerobic (consequence of triathlons). He had little kick to speak of, and seemed to win all his races just by being so much faster over the distance that it didn't even matter that his competitors had kicks at all. Maybe he wouldn't have responded well to alternative training, but I think he would've been incredible if he were actually trained to develop a kick.
Or maybe his training was optimized to who he was. Maybe he was going to be a 3:56/13:20/27:40 type guy. That is a really good guy. But it isn't like he would be a favorite over Chez and the other top guys every year during his career.
It is always tough to figure out who takes a step forward and who doesn't. Go down the all time lists and like half of them keep on improving. The other half fall off.
Man idk, LV had/has one of the prettiest strides I've seen. I don't think he could've beat ches tactically because of ches' explosiveness, but with his stride I think he would have been a 13:00-13:10 type leaving college.
pookieit wrote:
Oracle wrote:I read on these boards that both Ben Saarel and Grant Fisher would have more titles than Cheserek. No one here knows what they are palavering about. Why even ask?
Wait, what are Chesereks best 1500 and 5000 times? Oh wait, the times are not even in the top 10 of current crop of runners? Who cares about him.
Ches missed out on all those Payton Goober time trial championships that Stanford and Colorado Runners have on their walls. He had to settle for 17 nattys and counting
LV peaked at age 22, as a high school senior. Good riddance.
King Ches will hold his crown for a long time.Talent like his comes along very seldom. Appreciate his accomplishments.
What if scenarios are a waste of time.
His one season? He ran one race and was 62nd, but he was out of shape and quit. Coach never should have let him run, knowing his tendency to bag a sport every time he lost. What he had in talent and strength (8:29 is no joke), plus the xc titles, he lacked in mental fortitude. Real shame that he dropped after one bad race when he had been training for triathlon all summer, had won world juniors, rested, and then raced before he was in running shape again.