"putting your legs up on the wall will drain the lactic acid and mimic an ice bath" true or complete BS?

"Lactic acid" should already be out of your system not long after a hard workout

HardLoper wrote:

"Lactic acid" should already be out of your system not long after a hard workout

The human body doesn't produce lactic acid at all.

Not impressed wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

"Lactic acid" should already be out of your system not long after a hard workout

The human body doesn't produce lactic acid at all.

It doesn't?

Darn....When I catch the guy who's been secretly injecting me with the stuff for many years, I'm going to tell him to go to heck. I'll do it, too.

Coach wrote:

If you think it helps then it helps, if you don't think it will help them it won't

Agreed.

lipstick on a pig wrote:

brickrunnin wrote:

Incorrect, ice constricts blood vessels, reduces blood flow.

Inflammation is a good thing, helps with repairing muscles. Ice baths/whirlpools reduce inflammation, therefore no good for recovery.

Should note, ice is important for specific injuries (i.e sore ankle).

^This.

FFS. "ice", by which you mean cold, restricts blood flow if you're out in the woods dying of hypothermia. Your body will redirect blood away from most of your body in favor of keeping it in your organs.

Cold may narrow blood vessels, but your body is at the same time responding by moving blood into the area (your outer leg being exposed to the cold) to warm it up, hence the redness of your legs when you do an ice bath.

brickrunnin wrote:

thenoticeman wrote:

Aren't ice baths meant to be harmful in the long run?

Ice baths inhibit recovery by reducing blood flow. Massage is best for recovery

and putting your legs up reduces the blood flow to your legs delaying recovery time.

brickrunnin wrote:

Star wrote:

No. Don't put your legs up against a wall.

A cold whirlpool for your legs is good for recovery.

Not an ice bath.

Incorrect, ice constricts blood vessels, reduces blood flow.

Inflammation is a good thing, helps with repairing muscles. Ice baths/whirlpools reduce inflammation, therefore no good for recovery.

Should note, ice is important for specific injuries (i.e sore ankle).

If you have an open wound then RICES is supposed to be used. REST. ICE. COMPRESSION. ELEVATION and STABALIZE

Not really wrote:

brickrunnin wrote:

Ice baths inhibit recovery by reducing blood flow. Massage is best for recovery

Ice Baths, or cold whirlpool are the same concept. Moderate cold stimulus has the dual effects of reducing swelling (not a good thing in muscle recovery), and increasing blood flow after you leave the cold, as the body overcompensates in its attempt to restore normal operating temperatures. Increased blood flow leads to faster removal of waste products and increased supply of nutrients to repair and refuel damaged and depleted tissue.

Eh, I think you're reaching here. Not much evidence to support supercompensation and raises 2 questions-

1. Over 8 hours, is total blood flow the same when comparing no ice bath to ice bath?

2. If there is no difference, then what is the purpose of the ice bath?

Please keep in mind (not to you, mostly everyone else on the boards) that measuring recovery is VERY hard to do and control for.

Lactic Acid generally leaves the legs within an hour after a workout. It also isn't lactic acid that causes muscle fatigue.

Lactic acid is not your enemy. That was debunked a while ago. But, it's okay --- even the NBC track announcers as well as the UFC announcers still blame lactic acid. And, ice baths slow recovery, not enhance it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re4mbumngno

https://www.outsideonline.com/1971446/recovery-ice-bath-isnt-always-such-good-idea

LilUziWorshipper wrote:

My coach tells us this will help our legs feel fresher for races or whatever, but I don't really believe it.

Does it work or not?

First, this is all based on my experience--not on any medical evidence, research or anything else.

Ice tubs have always been my go to way to help manage general aches and pains, especially during high intensity training periods. I wouldn't advocate them more often than needed, but would certainly recommend 3-4 times a week, immediately following intense (especially interval) work, to help reduce inflammation and speed recovery. Again, my experience, may not be medically sound.

I would never have suggested that putting your legs up against a wall to 'drain lactic acid' would have the same effect as an ice tub, but in a pinch, it's an effective way to help promote circulation, especially if you are performing multiple high-intensity efforts with dedicated amounts of rest (think doubles, triples, quads during indoor or outdoor track season). I would do a reasonable cool-down, then put my legs up, and get up and get moving right into warm up again. This is also a good period for rehydration, especially if it's hot outside or dry inside. I would still suggest an ice tub following a race day, particularly one with multiple hard efforts.

LilUziWorshipper wrote:

My coach tells us this will help our legs feel fresher for races or whatever, but I don't really believe it.

Does it work or not?

I just get an injection from coach

Legs against the wall is mostly a placebo effect. It does help your legs feel better but it doesn't do anything to actually increase gains made during training. though mentally you may push yourself a little harder knowing youll feel okay later after a leg drain or the next day you may feel like you can go a little further because of the leg drain.

The ice bath doesn't aid in recovery. It helps keep you healthy. There is a benefit but its not related to recovery time.

The best recovery is a slow jog to keep the blood pumping through your legs.

compressions sleeves work better then anything else

you are feeling DOMS later on or next day, not lactic acid

Lactic acid is out of your system less than an hour after your workout

DOMS can't be avoided, it is micro-tears and you'd don't feel it initially because of our evolution for "fight or flight" so we could deal with predators

I find it really hard to believe any coach is still repeating in 2017 these things about "lactic acid" in legs, how can they be a coach?

The data on ice baths is still a little muddled. Here are some infographics that might help. In short, done at the proper time and depending on the exercise mode and goal, they can be useful or inhibit recovery.

http://ylmsportscience.blogspot.com/search?q=cold+water

As for elevating the legs, the argument that I have heard is that it will reduce the swelling in the legs by increasing the flow of fluids from the legs back toward the heart. Pretty sure there is not reason to elevate them more than just a little above the heart in order to get that action. Whether or not it works is another question.

I cannot think of a mechanism by which elevating the legs does anything for lactic acid/lactate.

LilUziWorshipper wrote:

My coach tells us this will help our legs feel fresher for races or whatever, but I don't really believe it.

Does it work or not?

Back in high school when I was training in swimming this was used practice. Between race events we were resting on floor with our legs up against the wall.

I think there are some benefits. First, the lactic acid needs to be removed from muscles. It's much easier for the heart if the gravity pull is working in favor of this not against. Also when you're on your feet the blood sooner or later accumulates in your legs hence the swelling when you stand up for long time.

Though I don't practice this now that I'm a runner, I think there is a good reason that it should be tried. It might give you "lighter" legs in distance

AgainstDaGrain wrote:

What you said is BS. Lactic acid isn't draining out of your legs, and ice baths actually inhibit training adaptations, so no do NOT do that.

However putting your feet up after a tough run feels good, so do that.

Ditto every word of that.