I am a 4:10 Guy in Practice, but a 4:25 guy in races

I think a lot of guys don't understand that when you over run any given workout, you are actually setting yourself back in your training, because you don't allow enough recovery between next hard workout. Imo, this is the mistake most runners/coaches make. It can take 2 to 3 weeks to fully recover from a badly designed workout.

Are you timing yourself with a mechanical watch in your hand?

Are you running your own pace in a race?

If your are capable of 62.5 laps, then run them. If you are lapping in 66 you'll end up disappointed.

You haven't described how you fail.

Are you going to slow, too fast, are you just too emotional to race properly. You don't sound that way.

Just show some discipline. Run to the clock, not to how you feel. Run 62s. Hang on. I've run some of my best times when I feel like schpoop. You need forget about yourself. Run hard and fast. Its about your prep, not about you

Try, in a low key meet, to try something new.

If you always go out hard, go out under goal pace and move up after a lap and a half or something.

If you always go out easier, try absolutely gunning it.

Change your race strategy and have fun with racing.

"That being said my range goes up to the 8K where I have run sub 25 twice, once of which was at Paul Short for reference."

No, you haven't. You suck at endurance races and short course XC races don't count. What is your track 5k?

Your 400m is 49.5, your 800m is 1:53.66 because you have no endurance, then your mile is 4:25 because you really don't have any endurance.

run a 3k or 5k. based on that 800m workout in low 2s, you can run a very good 3k. You are still recovering for the races because even if you do not feel too taxed in those workouts, that stuff is hard on the legs anyway. But you are not warming up enough for the races. Do the same warmup that you do on workout days to the point where you feel good.

Thanks for all the replies.

In the past I did a lot more speed and mile paced stuff.

The stuff now is more Vo2 and threshold and it doesn't feel hard but maybe I am going to hard for the purpose of the workout?

I was a 4/8 guy the first 2 years and it was only last year I moved to the mile.

That being said I've run no 800s or 4x4s this year. And to answer the 5K question I've never run one on the track. Never even run a 3K

FrustratedRunner232 wrote:

also thought it might be helpful to add during cross i was running 80-85 miles a week and now im running around 70-75

Cut it to 50-60. Just don't overeat and get fat. My guess is too many miles on your legs when you're trying to race.

Alan

thats what im saying! idk how i can only manage a 4:25 when i feel stronger then ever

Practice like a 420 guy now and run like a 410 guy at the end of the season.

I disagree with most on here.

Not as fast as you on at 400/800 (52/1:54), but could consistently run a handful of 3:50-3:52 1500s every year no matter if it was tactical kick to win or win out front early on.

I would usually open the season with like a 4:00ish 1500 then shake the rust off and just keep going hard in workouts then by seasons end at Conference I could rattle of 3:50 type races blindfolded.

Keep grinding and get your head in the game. Also try running more 4 mile tempos under 20:00 on the track or measured road course.

So, let's say you make the jump to 4:11 would you immediately start doing workouts at 4:05 pace? Most likely not. If you've raced and it wasn't a god awful race then you're unfortunately in that shape +/- two to three seconds. Train for where you are. If you want to get squirrely extend the length of reps at 4:25 mile pace.

Often when 4/8 people start doing more volume, the work doesn't pay off immediately. You need time to marinate. Make sure you don't get injured or fried, keep at it, and one day (probably when you taper) the work will kick in. The waiting period sucks, and I know that you want to see the fruits of your labor now- but be patient.

Also, you are young, so it's ok to train faster than race pace in practice. youngins can get a nice improvement curve from a stint of hard training. note: in 2-3 years, that overtraining bit wont be good.

run 4*400m as hard as you can with good breaks (5min) twice a week

for a month. You will soon dip under 4:15.

go slowly on your easy day. Consider walking if you are sore. Otherwise

a shuffle to remove lactate from the day before.

There are a lot of good suggestions on this thread if it's a training mistake. If it is mental, here's a suggestion: In place of your hardest workout some week, get four of your teammates to each time a lap and pace you through a perfectly even 4:10 mile. If you can hang on, maybe it'll boost your confidence. If you can't, well, maybe you aren't in 4:10 shape right now and need to figure out how far your condition has slipped and why.

My advice for you:

1. Chill out, took me a while to learn this one. Relax, if you have a bad race it's not the end of the world, quit over thinking it. It's just running.

2. I'm guessing you have some pre-race ritual or special warm-up before races that you never do in practice. Stop doing that. Warm up like you do in practice, don't do any special stretching or warming up. An easy 10 to 15 minute jog with some strides right before you race is all you need. Too long of a warm-up combined with how nervous you get might be wearing you out.

Hi Leo.

Phoebe Wright wrote:

Often when 4/8 people start doing more volume, the work doesn't pay off immediately. You need time to marinate. Make sure you don't get injured or fried, keep at it, and one day (probably when you taper) the work will kick in. The waiting period sucks, and I know that you want to see the fruits of your labor now- but be patient.

Also, you are young, so it's ok to train faster than race pace in practice. youngins can get a nice improvement curve from a stint of hard training. note: in 2-3 years, that overtraining bit wont be good.

Good advice here.

In addition, my advice would be to just race. Don't even think about times. Get in a fast race and think about competing.

My best times always come when I just compete and don't think about splits.

Take adderall or snort some coke before the race. Best way to get super amped up. You'll either PR massively or die but it'll be worth it.

I just want to thank everyone again for all the information.

I posted this yesterday during my heightened frustration, but have since calmed down and been able to take a step back and really acknowledge that running is a process and not a quick fix, and i feel motivated to keep working hard, and be patient.