I am a 4:10 Guy in Practice, but a 4:25 guy in races

easy days easier

Stop racing your workouts

Or maybe you are just the guy that collapses when it matters. Hopefully it's the former

Thanks for the quick replies.

I am very good at keeping my easy days easy, often running up to 8 min pace if need be. Going by feel.

I never race my workouts either, i just hit the prescribed paces even though i feel like I can go much faster

FrustratedRunner232 wrote:

Thanks for the quick replies.

I am very good at keeping my easy days easy, often running up to 8 min pace if need be. Going by feel.

I never race my workouts either, i just hit the prescribed paces even though i feel like I can go much faster

Cool, you covered the simple solutions. So you're either terrible at showing up when it counts or you're a liar.

Have a great day!

FrustratedRunner232 wrote:

Thanks for the quick replies.

I am very good at keeping my easy days easy, often running up to 8 min pace if need be. Going by feel.

I never race my workouts either, i just hit the prescribed paces even though i feel like I can go much faster

Give some example workouts and times

How can I be this terrible at showing up? Any fixes to this?

You're a 4:15-4:20 miler who trains like a 4:10 miler, so you're a 4:25 guy.

Your workout times should be based off your races, so slow it down on the fast days until your times start to match up.

is your mile PR a 4:10 but your stuck at 4:20-4:25 right now? or is that your PR?

I'm a senior now, last year as a junior I ran 4:11

I'm in better shape now or so I feel

Which is why I respectfully disagree with the people saying im only in 4:25 shape

Why bother with the mile? You have gobs of speed and the 8 is almost certainly a better event for you.

As for your PRs, my take is that even if you ran sub 25 and 1:53, you weren't in shape for both at the same time.

What are the workouts that lead you to believe that you are a 4:10 guy?

All other things being equal, maybe you aren't mentally tough enough. Why don't you try to get in a race with someone who is, say, more of a 4:15 miler, preferably someone who even-splits their races, and stick right on them, no gaps? Then you will know what it feels like. By the way, lots of people don't seem to realize that most winner's legs also feel like rubber at 1200, but they can gut it out better better than most.

FrustratedRunner233 wrote:

I'm a senior now, last year as a junior I ran 4:11

I'm in better shape now or so I feel

Which is why I respectfully disagree with the people saying im only in 4:25 shape

Someone above asked for specifics in workouts: maybe provide some of that.

Also, how did you run 4:11? Do that again but run one second faster? Seriously though, what kind of pacing do you prefer (get out fast/attempt even splits/etc)?

Secondly, people are suggesting you are in 4:25 shape because you run 4:25. I know this will sound insulting but I've always found it frustrating when my friends tell me they are in "x:xx shape." I apologize, but you don't get to say what shape you are in, your race times do that. If you aren't racing well and it's a mental thing, it's highly unlikely anyone here is going to determine that or be able to resolve it. I would also tend to agree with the poster above who suggested you train at the paces you can currently run. The other option is that you have something medically going on that you need to resolve: might be something that allows you to run well with some recovery but breaks you down when the effort is sustained?

I'm clearly not a doctor.

Have you tried resting a little more the week you race?

Also, don't go out so aggressive at start ! Try :64's your times will come down.

I do think its a mental thing as i get deathly nervous before races now and am afraid I am going to have another bad race.

as for workouts

ive done things like 8x400 @ 61 w/ 2 mins

600-400-600-400-300-300 @ 58 pace with 1 min per 100 recovery (I know a lot of recovery)

3x1200 @ 3:30 + 4x800 @ 2:15 w/ 2 min

5x300 @ 37-37-38-39-40 8 mins

3x800 w/ 4 mins rest 2:05, 2:04, 2:02, followed by 4x150 striders

5x1000 @ 2:55 w/ 2 min + 4x400 @ 62-63 w/ 2 min + 2x150 basically all out (16.8, 17.2)

A lot of people might think this is not indicative of anything, but looking at my log and the workouts i did before 4:11 & 1:53 these workouts are a bit faster then why i was in those shapes, which is why i think im in better shape. but i could be wrong

also thought it might be helpful to add during cross i was running 80-85 miles a week and now im running around 70-75

You're a 4:25 guy. You're not a 4:10 guy in practice or anywhere else until you've actually run 4:10. You're wasting what is most likely a 4:15ish race effort in practice. Stop using you're best efforts in practice and save them for race day. Do the workouts with your teammates instead of kicking the crap out of them.

Hey there,

I was an almost identical runner as you having the same problem.

My suggestion is; don't base your workouts on what you did or didn't do months past, but focus on what you have run in as recent as 3 weeks as a base point. This should include workouts and or races, tempos etc.

Look at your workouts and cut down the rest especially in the longer stuff such as 600's on up this should give you enough strength/endurance to do this in a race. In 3 weeks you should be able to do the same workout(s) with less effort.

Don't be overly concerned with resting, if you do the workouts like you have with no resting the day before then why bother changing before a race-do what you would normally do before a wrkt.

There is no linear way, as most people think--what works for some or masses may not work for you.

Options are, to just maintain routine and continuity-do 1hr but without focussing on pace or whatever you normally do-Most people think you should do the taper thing but that doesn't work for everyone so find the think that works for you.

That 800m wrkt shows you certainly can go much faster-but strength and speed take time in come together. Be patient.

The key is to be faster in meets than you are in practice. A lot of people don't understand that and try to run themselves into the ground every chance they get.