New NOP report- Rupp/Centro Suspicious Blood test. + Nike interfering with USADA

if you feel that way about thyroxine, how do you feel about them having Shannon Rowbury on synephrine (from bitter orange)

yes synephrine is on her list, it is quietly hidden in the Lipoflush which contains a massive number of supplements in its compound

T3/T4/TSH wrote:

My goodness, I hope you're not an md if you think thyroxine is "barely dangerous" when taken unnecessarily. Just this morning, I rounded in the icu (I'm on call for the group this weekend) on a female "fitness model" competitor trying to cut for an upcoming competition. She is in florid heart failure (EF of 19%) secondary to utilization of levo to "burn fat". She'll be lucky if she doesn't end up needing a heart transplant. At the very least, her days of athletic type training are completely over.

Doesn't this just prove that if they are taking thyroxine, they are doing it because it is needed to treat a medical condition? If taking the stuff unnecessarily produces negative health outcomes, and Rupp is taking the stuff and not experiencing negative health outcomes, he is taking it out of necessity, no?

evidence of need wrote:

Doesn't this just prove that if they are taking thyroxine, they are doing it because it is needed to treat a medical condition?

The "medical condition" inspired by the training. Because the training inspires the medical condition, the MD is cleared to prescribe. That means the athlete is cleared to get a TUE, or not, depending on the medication. The medication enables more training and better recovery.

Over weeks, this becomes a clear advantage over clean athletes.

Salazar takes full advantage of how the system works to enhance the performance of his athletes.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

evidence of need wrote:

Doesn't this just prove that if they are taking thyroxine, they are doing it because it is needed to treat a medical condition?

The "medical condition" inspired by the training. Because the training inspires the medical condition, the MD is cleared to prescribe. That means the athlete is cleared to get a TUE, or not, depending on the medication. The medication enables more training and better recovery.

Over weeks, this becomes a clear advantage over clean athletes.

Salazar takes full advantage of how the system works to enhance the performance of his athletes.

You could apply the same logic to a sprinter getting treatment for a pulled hamstring.

evidence of need wrote:

T3/T4/TSH wrote:

My goodness, I hope you're not an md if you think thyroxine is "barely dangerous" when taken unnecessarily. Just this morning, I rounded in the icu (I'm on call for the group this weekend) on a female "fitness model" competitor trying to cut for an upcoming competition. She is in florid heart failure (EF of 19%) secondary to utilization of levo to "burn fat". She'll be lucky if she doesn't end up needing a heart transplant. At the very least, her days of athletic type training are completely over.

Doesn't this just prove that if they are taking thyroxine, they are doing it because it is needed to treat a medical condition? If taking the stuff unnecessarily produces negative health outcomes, and Rupp is taking the stuff and not experiencing negative health outcomes, he is taking it out of necessity, no?

Interesting thought, but my intent was to highlight how dangerous messing with supposedly "barely dangerous" drugs can be.

Sooooo inspiring, Barry! Why no posts about Aden holding the stopwatch though?

https://instagram.com/p/BRQf14vDEJQ/

T3/T4/TSH wrote:

evidence of need wrote:

Doesn't this just prove that if they are taking thyroxine, they are doing it because it is needed to treat a medical condition? If taking the stuff unnecessarily produces negative health outcomes, and Rupp is taking the stuff and not experiencing negative health outcomes, he is taking it out of necessity, no?

Interesting thought, but my intent was to highlight how dangerous messing with supposedly "barely dangerous" drugs can be.

Understood. But the fact that thyroid hormones aren't a "more is better" kind of thing make me reluctant to call them PEDs. If you are using them, and they are helping, it is obviously because you didn't have enough in your body, i.e. you are treating a condition.

asking the doctor wrote:

if you feel that way about thyroxine, how do you feel about them having Shannon Rowbury on synephrine (from bitter orange)

yes synephrine is on her list, it is quietly hidden in the Lipoflush which contains a massive number of supplements in its compound

Synephrine. Not prohibited in and out of competition.

Hey "Doctor". I suggest you take a refresher in HIPAA and stop talking about people's private records on a public forum.

evidence of need wrote:

T3/T4/TSH wrote:

Interesting thought, but my intent was to highlight how dangerous messing with supposedly "barely dangerous" drugs can be.

Understood. But the fact that thyroid hormones aren't a "more is better" kind of thing make me reluctant to call them PEDs. If you are using them, and they are helping, it is obviously because you didn't have enough in your body, i.e. you are treating a condition.

Not exactly true. Supranormal thyroid supplementation will increase your "metabolic burn" as well as multiple other factors that can be seen as positive for a period- ie "more is better", as you termed it. However, there becomes a point that it becomes significantly detrimental. Extremely harmful becomes the point at which the exogenous thyroid is withdrawn. The thyroid then has to begin producing the hormone again. Many times, it never does. Very interesting discussion. One could also utilize your opinion to argue for testosterone supplementation.

medical ethics much wrote:

T3/T4/TSH wrote:

My goodness, I hope you're not an md if you think thyroxine is "barely dangerous" when taken unnecessarily. Just this morning, I rounded in the icu (I'm on call for the group this weekend) on a female "fitness model" competitor trying to cut for an upcoming competition. She is in florid heart failure (EF of 19%) secondary to utilization of levo to "burn fat". She'll be lucky if she doesn't end up needing a heart transplant. At the very least, her days of athletic type training are completely over.

Hey "Doctor". I suggest you take a refresher in HIPAA and stop talking about people's private records on a public forum.

...and I'd suggest you review what is/isn't allowed under HIPAA rules.

Yes, this is completely inappropriate; please do not report patient information here or anywhere.

medical ethics much wrote:

T3/T4/TSH wrote:

My goodness, I hope you're not an md if you think thyroxine is "barely dangerous" when taken unnecessarily. Just this morning, I rounded in the icu (I'm on call for the group this weekend) on a female "fitness model" competitor trying to cut for an upcoming competition. She is in florid heart failure (EF of 19%) secondary to utilization of levo to "burn fat". She'll be lucky if she doesn't end up needing a heart transplant. At the very least, her days of athletic type training are completely over.

Hey "Doctor". I suggest you take a refresher in HIPAA and stop talking about people's private records on a public forum.

Different screen name; but same reply to you: go read the rules. Please stop hijacking the thread.

Http wrote:

asking the doctor wrote:

if you feel that way about thyroxine, how do you feel about them having Shannon Rowbury on synephrine (from bitter orange)

yes synephrine is on her list, it is quietly hidden in the Lipoflush which contains a massive number of supplements in its compound

Synephrine. Not prohibited in and out of competition.

Synephrine is chemically related to oxilofrine (methylsynephrine, hydroxyephrine, oxyephrine, and 4-HMP). Both are stimulants. Oxilofrine is currently a WADA prohibited substance when used in competition.

Synephrine is a masking agent for the banned substance.

correct, it is not prohibited but it can be far far more risky than caffeine for example

Bitter orange (synephrine) is considered a banned substance by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-976-BITTER%20ORANGE.aspx?activeIngredientId=976&activeIngredientName=BITTER%20ORANGE

don't get confused

synephrine is a derivative of bitter orange, so is oxilofrine but they are all not the same thing, synephrine is a subset

bitter orange = banned

oxilofrine = banned

synephrine = not banned but probably not safe either

does NCAA actually list synephrine or do they just list Bitter Orange ?

WADA doesn't ban synephrine but maybe should

asking the doctor wrote:

don't get confused

synephrine is a derivative of bitter orange, so is oxilofrine but they are all not the same thing, synephrine is a subset

bitter orange = banned

oxilofrine = banned

synephrine = not banned but probably not safe either

does NCAA actually list synephrine or do they just list Bitter Orange ?

WADA doesn't ban synephrine but maybe should

Bitter Orange = synephrine

synephrine = subset of oxilofrine (banned)

use oxilofrine along with synephrine for a boost ... got it

asking the doctor wrote:

does NCAA actually list synephrine or do they just list Bitter Orange ?

Incapable of looking yourself. Or maybe you just do not want to see that synephrine is banned.

on.ncaa.com/2gzn2Oe

Some Examples of NCAA Banned Substances in Each Drug Class

1. Stimulants

amphetamine (Adderall)

caffeine (guarana)

cocaine

ephedrine

methamphetamine

methylphenidate (Ritalin)

synephrine (bitter orange)

methylhexanamine (DMAA)

bath salts (mephedrone)

Octopamine; DMBA

phenethylamines (PEAs)

etc