Personally I thought the most interesting tidbit in the article on the leaked USADA doc from the Sunday Times was how Alberto Salazar discussed with Lance Armstrong l-carnitine. It shows they had a closer working relationship than I thought.
The article doesn't say in what year this was but that it was before Armstrong's downfall (he was charged by USADA in 2012) and that Alberto was so excited about L-Carnitine that he emailed Lance and said, “Lance call me asap! We have tested it and it’s amazing"
I'd like to know what you all think Alberto knew about Lance at the time. The whole thing confuse me because I would say most people who followed cycling not even that closely would have concluded Lance was a cheat way before he was busted.
That's where I also sort of laugh at the whole Nike sub 2:00 thing. This NIke lab that is supposedly is so smart and is going to produce a sub 2:00 marathon either a) didn't know Lance was doping or b) presumably knew about it and said nothing. I don't think either makes the lab look good.
So with Alberto it seems.
1) He really didn't know or think Lance was doping. Personally if I thought somebody was doping I wouldn't be all excited to email them about a lesser substance and be like "hey this is great!! call me". This interpretation also gives credence to Alberto could be operating under the USADA rules. Hey "I found this great legal thing no one knows about."
2) He knew about Lance doping but still though L-carnitine was great. If personally don't get this logic but I want to see if most of you lean to #1.
3) What are some other possibilities?
Alberto to Lance “Lance call me asap! We have tested it and it’s amazing"
Report Thread
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#2/#2 combo: Salazar fell victim to self-giddy hype, thinking that it was better than it really was, from his initial tests.
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Fat burner, as good as what was out there and/or safer, and (currently) legal.
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Wejo, why don't you ask Alberto?
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Ask him/ wrote:
Wejo, why don't you ask Alberto?
Because that would be "journalism," which is forbidden by the LetsRun charter. -
Every serious cycling fan-- i.e. fans of the sport before Lance was a star and who knew the European scene well-- strongly suspected Lance was doping upon his comeback. There was no other legitimate explanation for how he could dominate other known and suspected dopers. The mass delusion about his possible "innocence" was almost exclusively an American and Anglophone phenomena.
Lance was a great talent, a hard worker and a smart racer who responded exceptionally well to a sophisticated doping regimen.
Unless Salzar was completely ignorant of European professional cycling culture, which I suppose is possible, it seems unlikely he didn't know Lance-- like nearly all of his competitors-- were up for nearly anything. -
What makes you believe this email even happened? We haven't seen the supposed USADA report that Fancy Bears leaked.
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YOU F###### TROLL. WE SAW THE ARTICLE, STOP BEGGING FOR THREAD VIEWS.
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ORGPJCT wrote:
YOU F###### TROLL. WE SAW THE ARTICLE, STOP BEGGING FOR THREAD VIEWS.
Calm down, Alberto. -
So... what's the timeline on L-caritine? Wasn't it on the supplement market already in the 80s?
L-carnitine broke onto the supplement scene back in the 1980s as a popular fat-burner. Then it fizzled out when sexier, stimulant-based fat burners became all the rage. Today, L-carnitine is back and stronger than ever. Only now, we know this well-researched supplement not only aids in fat-burning, but also has the potential to enhance exercise performance and recovery. -
wejo wrote:
3) What are some other possibilities?
A tax payer operating in the gray zones of the law will always be happy if his accountant calls him and says that he's found a legal way of doing what the tax payer now does illegally. -
Don't know why USADA hasn't pulled the trigger on banning Salazar from coaching yet, dude's bait.
He'd probably be able to find plenty of work in Russia anyway. -
54x11 wrote:
Every serious cycling fan-- i.e. fans of the sport before Lance was a star and who knew the European scene well-- strongly suspected Lance was doping upon his comeback.
Every serious cycling fan knew Lance was doping since at least 1999. -
Who is the "We" to whom Alberto refers?
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I vote on 1 except I would say only "mostly" following USADA rules.
Everything I have seen suggests Salazar is a gray zone guy that probably has marginally drug "cheated" in the past but mostly in ways that weren't meaningful. i.e.) Salazar has not promoted or assisted any of his athletes in longterm EPO & HGH programs but rather has promoted use of prescription drugs and illegal drips in situations were it was not prescribed (or should have been perscribed) or allowed.
In typical "projection" pyschology Salazar probably thought Lance was successful by using the same gray area methods he used and thought this finding would be lovingly embraced by Lance. Lance on the otherhand probably laughed at the thought that L-Carnitine was going to help him at all.
That said I am still very suspicious of Mo due to his inexplicable travels to hidden far off locations and associations with different coach's caught with massive supplies of the real drugs. -
casual obsever wrote:
54x11 wrote:
Every serious cycling fan-- i.e. fans of the sport before Lance was a star and who knew the European scene well-- strongly suspected Lance was doping upon his comeback.
Every serious cycling fan knew Lance was doping since at least 1999.
You guys are funny and I guess LRC posters were not cycling fans, as I still remember the flood of support Armstrong got from LRC posters, before he was finally caught.
Similar to how LRC posters kept supporting Marion Jones.
The only people worse at realizing how much PED's are a part of the pro world are the talking heads of radio and TV sports shows. They are always the last to admit someone is doing drugs. -
WHERE IS THE DAMN REPORT wrote:
What makes you believe this email even happened? We haven't seen the supposed USADA report that Fancy Bears leaked.
The Sunday Times is a very reputable new organization. I trust when they say they have seen a USADA report leaked by Fancy Bears, they have seen a report leaked by Fancy Bears. Also USADA issued a statement on the leak last night.
What could does denying the report do? There is a lot in there that isn't that damning ie Mo Farah's doctors knew what prescription drugs the Times says he was taking without a prescription. If you were trying to hide something my thinking is you wouldn't tell the British team doctors.
ORGPJCT wrote:
YOU F###### TROLL. WE SAW THE ARTICLE, STOP BEGGING FOR THREAD VIEWS.
A lot of people may not even read the full article and this tidbit is interesting enough to discuss on its own. Essentially you are saying -stop posting stuff people are interested in. Alberto Salazar discussing supplements with Lance Armstrong is of interest to a lot of people.
californiacarlson wrote:
You guys are funny and I guess LRC posters were not cycling fans, as I still remember the flood of support Armstrong got from LRC posters, before he was finally caught.
So true. We used to receive the NASTIEST emails from people when we just posted the possibility Lance could be doping and let people discuss it. That is what needs to be done.
However by 2010 a lot more people thought Lance had cheated than in 1999.
The Lance emails reminds how how poorly Nike has handled all of this in my opinion. Not to my knowledge with Lance or with the claims against NOP has Nike done an internal investigation to find out what was going on. If clean sport was your priority that is what would be done. Nike even defended Lance for a day AFTER he was charged by USADA. -
The Sunday Times published more information last night. It has a fuller quote from Alberto that also ties in Galen Rupp.
“Lance, call me asap! We have tested it and it’s amazing,†Salazar typed. “You are the only athlete I’m going to tell the actual numbers to other than Galen Rupp. It’s too incredible. All completely legal and natural! You will finish the iron man in about 16 minutes less while taking this.â€
Also the Times says the leaked report was a "269-page interim report sent by Usada to the Texas Medical Board in March 2016" about Dr. Brown. -
wejo wrote:
What could does denying the report do? There is a lot in there that isn't that damning ie Mo Farah's doctors knew what prescription drugs the Times says he was taking without a prescription. If you were trying to hide something my thinking is you wouldn't tell the British team doctors.
Indeed. That's why we haven't heard about the real bad stuff yet. -
Every bit of news that's ever come out from this AlSal investigation has essentially shown that he will do everything LEGAL. It's still annoying to some, but he hasn't cheated IMO
