Heart attack -- advice?

cardiac issues == scary wrote:

I met a runner who had cardiac stents done. He said he was cleared for short races, but not marathons.

I worry about my cardiac health too.

I don't worry about health. I worry about doctors. The more I'm around them, the more that I see how dangerous they are, and wonder why anyone would take their advice ever, much less to undergo "tests," or to spend time in a hospital, that was not absolutely avoidable, as anyone in a hospital is at a great risk of imminent death.

70 year old wrote:

cardiac issues == scary wrote:

I met a runner who had cardiac stents done. He said he was cleared for short races, but not marathons.

I worry about my cardiac health too.

I don't worry about health. I worry about doctors. The more I'm around them, the more that I see how dangerous they are, and wonder why anyone would take their advice ever, much less to undergo "tests," or to spend time in a hospital, that was not absolutely avoidable, as anyone in a hospital is at a great risk of imminent death.

Amen to that! People are robots when it comes to the medical system; what the doctor/surgeon says must be the Word of God. Hardly anybody researches medical issues anymore and simple puts all their faith & trust in the system 😄. And yet the medical cartel is destroying America: Medical errors are now the *3rd* leading cause of death in the U.S.!!!

Calls it wrote:

I'd like to see the ekg. Sounds like at the least non-stemi. What were your troponin levels like? Who knows what cardiac enzymes/ekg look like s/p run as well.

You're either a Cardiologist or someone who works in a cath lab or on a cardiac floor..;)

I agree, it would be interesting to see their EKG and labs to determine the outcome.

ACLS? wrote:

Calls it wrote:

I'd like to see the ekg. Sounds like at the least non-stemi. What were your troponin levels like? Who knows what cardiac enzymes/ekg look like s/p run as well.

You're either a Cardiologist or someone who works in a cath lab or on a cardiac floor..;)

I agree, it would be interesting to see their EKG and labs to determine the outcome.

Maybe he plays one on TV?

I was also born in 1955 but my heart attack was in 2011. I also did not experience pain, just tightness and fatigue - but something was definitely wrong. Mine went undiagnosed for 7 weeks (my thinking was the same, "I'm a runner..."). The day after it was diagnosed, I had a triple bypass. As soon as they disconnected me from the machines, I started walking around the hospital. I couldn't get along with my first cardiologist (he wouldn't let me run and wouldn't even send me to cardiac rehab) so I found one near my house with whom I get along well - and who is more knowledgeable. When I first started with the new one, I let him know that I wanted to minimize my medication and that I needed to run. His response was "Can you take some risk?" to which I responded "Yes". His main concern with me (since I have had a bypass - which helped - no more angina) was getting an enlarged or "baggy" heart. So they do an ultrasound every so often to keep an eye on it.

I did 28 workouts in the 7 weeks between my heart attack and the bypass so I was pretty confident that I should be able to run. The first push-up after having my sternum cut in half was a bit of a worry but not running. Within a year, I was able to run 14 miles in two hours. I ran a 10k, a 50k and a 100k. Since then I've had injury problems and have been running more like 30 mpw.

I'm on a couple of blood pressure prescriptions and a statin as well as baby aspirin. My libido is ok although I did see an effect at times. My self-imposed diet is vegan plus fish. I tried vegan but I was getting injuries for no reason, so I added fish.

Both cardiologists thought that running helped me survive the heart attack because it caused the development of additional capillaries which were able to supply the heart muscle with blood when the principal artery became clogged. I had a 2 year long decline in fitness leading up to the heart attack so I believe the blockage took about that long to close off the arteries. I had a significant amount of stress at work at that time so I believe that contributed.

Advice - Follow your doctors' advice but let them know your priorities. I can't give you advice on diet, medication, etc. because if nothing else, I think everyone's heart attack is different. But don't succumb to fear. Make sure you educate yourself on your condition. Good luck.

I was 45 and while not in the shape I was at 20, still not too bad. On a Friday in June of 1989, I had severe chest pain and went to the doc. 3 EKGs showed nothing. The next day, repeat of Friday. Doc said he'd meet us at the ER. I drove to the ER and was there 5 minutes when I had an "incident", in this case, cardiac arrest. I was resuscitated and had a cath several days later. The problem was on the back side of my heart, and EKGs were missing it.

Problems continued and in November, I had another cath. The doc was a butcher, screwed up an artery with too much pressure and I had bypass surgery in Dec (3 grafts).

Still having problems, I switched hospitals to Johns Hopkins, in Baltimore, and had a second bypass operation 400 days after the first, 2 grafts.

One of the interesting things I have learned over the years is that 70-80% of men, but only 30% of women, who have bypass surgery develop atrial fibrillation I have had several procedures to deal with that, the last being in July of last year.

Life is interesting, but also good., In fact, if things were to get any better, I'd have to hire someone to help me enjoy it. :)

Amen to medical errors. My wife had a C-section. The doctor, who'd been on shift for 12 hours, had a nurse stitch my wife up while the doctor watched, and critiqued. This was not a teaching hospital. Fast forward 18 months. My wife had horrible pain on her scar with her monthly cycle. Went to doctor--quick look at the chart--and was told nothing out of the ordinary--it will get better. After half dozen visits over the next 6 months, finally went to get a second opinion. 2nd doctor said that uterine lining poked through the uterine incision, and swelled up and inflamed with her period. Poor job of suturing--obvious mistake and diagnosis to a first year resident. Second surgery--cleaned up the incision and she was back in business.

Malpractice--you bet. That butcher wouldn't even admit to what happened, and my wife suffered 6 months of excruciating pain because the Doctor didn't want to admit the mistake and risk paying a settlement.

70 year old wrote:

I don't worry about health. I worry about doctors. The more I'm around them, the more that I see how dangerous they are, and wonder why anyone would take their advice ever, much less to undergo "tests," or to spend time in a hospital, that was not absolutely avoidable, as anyone in a hospital is at a great risk of imminent death.

Medical System Madness wrote:

Amen to that! People are robots when it comes to the medical system; what the doctor/surgeon says must be the Word of God. Hardly anybody researches medical issues anymore and simple puts all their faith & trust in the system 😄. And yet the medical cartel is destroying America: Medical errors are now the *3rd* leading cause of death in the U.S.!!

Thanks. It is nice to see some sanity on letsrun. This is a serious life and death matter.

Two of my friends got cardiologist advised stents put in, and three months later they were dead.

Typical letsrun thread with a mixture of knowledge and lack thereof.

Medical mistakes are NOT the 3rd most common cause of death-not even close. I work in a hospital. I rarely see anything that comes close to a fatal medical mistake.

And 70 year old, how long would your friends have lived without a coronary stent? People commonly die due to a number of medical conditions while being treated for those conditions. That is why they are treated.

vanjr wrote:

70 year old wrote:

Thanks. It is nice to see some sanity on letsrun. This is a serious life and death matter.

Two of my friends got cardiologist advised stents put in, and three months later they were dead.

Typical letsrun thread with a mixture of knowledge and lack thereof.

Medical mistakes are NOT the 3rd most common cause of death-not even close. I work in a hospital. I rarely see anything that comes close to a fatal medical mistake.

And 70 year old, how long would your friends have lived without a coronary stent? People commonly die due to a number of medical conditions while being treated for those conditions. That is why they are treated.

Thank you. I know doctors are not infallible and mistakes do happen, but the old "my friend had a heart attack, went to a doctor and died!" line is silly. Do you think the death may have had more to do with the heart attack? Doctors are in a tough spot treating very ill patients. Yes, some of them are going to die. That doesn't mean the doctor killed them.

This is brilliant advice. So on a heart attack thread you are telling people to disregard the medical system in favor of what? What research can you cite that avoiding the medical system is a good idea when you're having a heart attack?

day2day wrote:

hope you can slowly recover back to normal, don't be afraid to get second opinions from qualified doctors because two doctors contradicting each other is rather common

is my thinking wrong on this or would the max HR on someone over 60 be so low that your heart would basically be working at maximum all the time for any kind of decent pace, at even the best efficiencies? that's a lot of strain

Not from personal experience.

I'm 60 and haven't run all out with a heart-monitor on for a couple of years, but my top was about 170 then, and at the moment I'm doing steady runs 7:00 to 7:20 pace at about 126-130.

Based on a resting pulse around 42 - I'm running Z1 aerobic pace.

Advice.. wrote:

longroad wrote:

Thanks. i'm surprised your hdl was so low. i had thought that all runners or cyclists had high HDL since it is correlated with exercise.

Understand. There is a misconception that if you eat healthy, exercise and perhaps drink red wine in moderation that your HDL and LDL numbers will follow. Not so for those of us with genetic predisposition to having bad numbers. I can tell you back when I was running 60 mi a week in college my HDL was actually even lower...this isn't just a lifestyle disease it is also genetic. The real game changer for my risk is a set of meds that I will take for the rest of my life: a baby aspirin a day, b-blocker, ace inhibitor and especially a statin.

Of the medications you listed above, what are your side effects?

my HDL- 66, LDL- 155, Total - 239

I'm going to try a new diet, but I think it's largely genetic so I'm considering medication

XY wrote:

Advice.. wrote:

Understand. There is a misconception that if you eat healthy, exercise and perhaps drink red wine in moderation that your HDL and LDL numbers will follow. Not so for those of us with genetic predisposition to having bad numbers. I can tell you back when I was running 60 mi a week in college my HDL was actually even lower...this isn't just a lifestyle disease it is also genetic. The real game changer for my risk is a set of meds that I will take for the rest of my life: a baby aspirin a day, b-blocker, ace inhibitor and especially a statin.

Of the medications you listed above, what are your side effects?

my HDL- 66, LDL- 155, Total - 239

I'm going to try a new diet, but I think it's largely genetic so I'm considering medication

Statins are quite safe. There is a small risk of liver and muscle breakdown side effects but those are small risks. I have no side effects from any of my meds so I consider myself lucky

I would just like to reiterate as a physician. This is my job. I take my job very seriously. I spent 4 years of college, 4 years of medical scool, 7 years of residency making less than minimum wage per hour worked and over $250k of debt to get to do my job. I love my job and love my patients. It is incredibly stressful at times. My job effects me and my family because it is impossible to leave it at work. I worry about my sick patients at home, while I am out with my family, while I work around my house. I have cried when poor outcomes have occured in my patients. I have questioned my decisions on patients and often have talked or called colleagues about these or other decisions. I encourage my ptients and all of you as patients to research thoughtfully (not forum groups or webmd, etc) and to question your doctors as it is your life that is at risk. But here and many other threads on here that have such disrespect for people that have dedicated their lives for service of others, to say they are out to get you, not caring, or some of tuese other statements is disrespectful and hurtful. Yes there are some bad doctors out there just like there are some bad people in all professions.

I would also like to point out that even if these are trolled responses meant to be funny I assure you they are not and are actually very dangerous. I have had parents refuse treatment for their children for conditions that were mild and treatable with medications, citing online forums or friends that said falsely that these treatments were fraudulant and government conspiracies, making doctors rich. They sought unlicensed care and returned months to years later incredibly ill requiring life altering surgeries/treatments that likely will not only significantly impact their daily life but potentially shorten their life. This has happened on several occasions, fortunately to my knowledge none have died due to this negligence. Your statements read by one impressionable person can lead to serious harm. Please be thoughtful when posting anything related to the health of others without proper knowledge in the area.

Quite. The mods allow trolling of threads about heart attacks and jokes about child sex but when I try to post about a national XC title win for Callum Hawkins, it gets refused as spam.

Sorry, I am not a native speaker, so pardon my language.

You should listen to a doctor who actually is up to date on exercise for heart patients. I have a doctoral degree and have studied this topic for some years. I, and some of my old running mates, have run marathons and even ultras after heart attacks. But it is absolutely vital that you are examined properly and follow doctor`s advice. Internet cannot subsitute for that.

My advice:

1) Please note that all kinds of ignorance on this topic abound, even among doctors. So do not listen to prejudice

2) Have regular checks including EKG to check that your condition is stable

3) Start exercising once 2) is established.

4) Research carried out at St Olafs hospital (Norway) has even demonstrated that starting intensive interval exercise (up to 95% of max HR) is extremely beneficial for patients 2 WEEKS after heart attack. Intense exercise strengthens your heart muscle. I have seen with my own eyes how interval training can get heart patients into great shape. It improves your odds tremendously.

5) If you feel any kind of chest pain, severe dizziness or nausea during or after exercise, stop activity immediately and seek medical examination

6) It is scary to start exercise in the beginning, so the first runs could be done in company with someone who knows you

7) Take the medication prescribed by your doctor. Contrary to what internet "experts" will have you believe, the medication these days is extremely beneficial. Diet does not correct genetic predispositions for cardiovascular disease. Period.

8) Take things gradually. Your confidence and fitness will increase beyond what you could believe possible if you remain determined. It is prudent to avoid a lot of competing, espesially over long distances.

Good luck. Having run for so many years, you are ideally equipped to enjoy many more years of running. You probably had a strong heart muscle to begin with, so the injury isnt necessarily big.

I saw that Linda Prefontaine, biological full sister of Steve Prefontaine, recently had a heart attack, and needed stents, as one of her arteries was near 100% clogged. God speed to Linda Prefontaine, may she have a full recovery.