Do all High School coaches overtrain their distance runners?

I realize that I am responding to an ancient thread.

With the quality of coaching I’m not sure what the answer is but I think part of it might have something to do with very low pay, unsupported professional development, etc.

I am well aware that throwing money at something is not always the answer but just be aware that the position for most of us is pretty much a volunteer one.

I believe that when you take on a job you do the best you can regardless of pay but most don’t share my view in this but it is hard to argue with them when they point out they are not being paid properly.

otter wrote:

I realize that I am responding to an ancient thread.

With the quality of coaching I’m not sure what the answer is but I think part of it might have something to do with very low pay, unsupported professional development, etc.

I am well aware that throwing money at something is not always the answer but just be aware that the position for most of us is pretty much a volunteer one.

I believe that when you take on a job you do the best you can regardless of pay but most don’t share my view in this but it is hard to argue with them when they point out they are not being paid properly.

Sure, HS coaching pay is not the incentive.

What about the all the fad coaching? It is like a mirror that is shattered.

My HS coach came straight out of an elite system--grad student at Oregon and trained with Bowerman and Dellinger one year for CC.

The coach implemented those techniques for HS.

We didn't burn out on indoor workouts because we didn't have an indoor track. Instead, we ran Lydiard and Holmer fartleks in the snow covered parks, and when possible, some decent intervals on our sand-dirt track in our training shoes. We had an elite system, rather than the current trend of paralysis by analysis.

"Do all High School coaches overtrain their distance runners?"

In my experience, the opposite is more frequently true when you look at *all* high school coaches.

To the original question, no. Most high school coaches improperly train their distance athletes with the lack of a holistic year long plan focused on development, too heavy a reliance on anaerobic conditioning, and over racing kids to injury/burnout just to keep the school's AD happy with dual meet wins and conference titles.

yhwh wrote:

Why?

Find a state with nationally-ranked CC and middle-distance and distance programs, year-in-and-year-out.

Iowa is not it.

As for sprints? Texas and CA. Maybe some in FL, but not like Texas and CA. Texas 6A HS state championship 4 x 400m is typically amazing. I don't remember the divisions when in I was in HS, but any time of 3:10 or faster in the mile relay was almost always Texas or CA HS.

As for university coaches in middle-distance or distance?

If you had the good fortune to have a really great college coach--not some Div II or Div III program, but Div I--please share.

Two kids running D1 for consistently nationally ranked programs as we speak. Spouse is HS coach with multiple individual and team titles. Titles with boys and girls. Your Iowa comment is not relevant to my question, but my first hand observations of college and HS coaching aren’t limited to Iowa. I ran for both D3 and D1 coaches that combined coached over 80 years.

The best coaches I’ve observed in HS develop talent across the board, cultivate racing savvy and the top runners regularly go on to develop in college versus setting career PRs in HS. I’ve seen very few HS coaches that fit these criteria but they exist and frankly aren’t the best known HS legends. The best known HS coaches often leave little in the tank for a career beyond HS. The good college coaches I’ve observed develop a range of talent consistently, are patient with freshman and keep athletes on the right side of fine line to mitigate injuries. There are quite a few college coaches I’m aware of at D1 and D3 that meet these criteria. I don’t have much knowledge of D2 coaches.

Banned in 60 Seconds wrote:

To the original question, no. Most high school coaches improperly train their distance athletes with the lack of a holistic year long plan focused on development, too heavy a reliance on anaerobic conditioning, and over racing kids to injury/burnout just to keep the school's AD happy with dual meet wins and conference titles.

Well said. ^^^^^

...one more comment. The best coaches don’t train men and women differently per se...rather they use systematic approaches to training and racing that they individualize to address individual strengths and weaknesses, physiological and psychological traits and injury susceptibility.

Stupid question. Plenty are undertrained.

iowakidscanrun wrote:

Banned in 60 Seconds wrote:

To the original question, no. Most high school coaches improperly train their distance athletes with the lack of a holistic year long plan focused on development, too heavy a reliance on anaerobic conditioning, and over racing kids to injury/burnout just to keep the school's AD happy with dual meet wins and conference titles.

Well said. ^^^^^

Yes, I agree.

I will add that most AD’s could care less about anything except parent complaints or anything else that might take up more time than setting up the schedule, uploading the roster or scheduling buses.

otter wrote:

iowakidscanrun wrote:

Well said. ^^^^^

Yes, I agree.

I will add that most AD’s could care less about anything except parent complaints or anything else that might take up more time than setting up the schedule, uploading the roster or scheduling buses.

Also true^^^^

Coach G wrote:

curious... wrote:

Are you saying that there aren´t any coaching educations in America?

There are many excellent training programs offered through USATF as well as seminars and clinics provided by other coaches. Coaching like all careers is about your own long term development and continuing to learn. Coaches that do not further their own development even after 25+ years of coaching are lazy and should be avoided.

High school sports is about long term athletic development, participation and a learning experience not about producing a select few elite athletes to stroke the coach's ego and in a few years these great athletes are out of the sport.

Many Universities have a Coaching Minor. I majored in Math and had a Coaching Minor.

Classes included:

Sports Administration

Athletic Training

Motor Learning

Biomechanics and Kinesiology

Sports Psychology

Sport Specific Coaching Classes

Sport Specific Officiating Classes

The semester before student teaching, I had a coaching practicum at a local high school during the cross country season; basically student teaching for coaching.

I have always encouraged my Senior students, that if they have a desire to teach, they should get some STEM degree and a coaching minor.

Banned in 60 Seconds wrote:

To the original question, no. Most high school coaches improperly train their distance athletes with the lack of a holistic year long plan focused on development, too heavy a reliance on anaerobic conditioning, and over racing kids to injury/burnout just to keep the school's AD happy with dual meet wins and conference titles.

Sometimes you see a "one size fits all" approach, which means in a program some athletes wind up undertrained, some overtrained, and some who find the training works well enough. It takes time to organize training to fit individual needs, and not all coaches have that amount of bandwidth available.

overall physical weakness, muscle imbalance, poor biomechanics, poor diet, minimal sleep contribute to injuries more so than poor coaching. majority of hs kids will not do all of the 'little things' to improve their running. no matter how many times this has been discussed with the kids and their parents, majority will not follow. a one size fits all training model is a recipe for disaster as well, however since most hs programs do not have multiple assistant coaches, let alone one, the head coach unfortunately is left with only focusing on the top horses for the team.

IMO, most are afraid to train them too much. I think the problem comes in when you get a kid that has done nothing, no sports and wants to run in HS. 40mpw should be easy for a 9th grader, but for these overweight, out of shapers, it might be too much.