Shaunae Miller just got married - take a look at these bridesmaid pics. OMG!!

THANK YOU. It's not about someone being a "cuck" (again, I don't understand this comment...why does someone standing up for women mean they are a cuckold?) or about being overly politically correct. It's about being a decent person. As TrackCoach says, all of the women overly sexualized, degraded, or insulted on here are human beings. It sets a really bad example for the younger people reading on these forums, who might be swayed by reading enough of these comments to treat the females in their life poorly.

This. Like I said earlier, I never had problems with the OP. They didn't say anything wrong. Women do point out often when men are good-looking, so I think it's fair that men can do that to women, although it CAN be done in a classless or derogatory way.

The main problem is the men saying what certain woman should or shouldn't wear, blatantly older men saying they ran through college campuses through years until "the women got all fat." That's disgusting, honestly. F---ing disgusting.

Definitely! So I started coming to this board back in HS (about ten years ago, or a little more), and I swear I don't remember the board being so misogynistic (and racist, for that matter) back then, but maybe I was just young and didn't notice it. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have had as much of a problem with it back then, as I was immature and young. Now, basically that is what this board has become to me.

Like you, I would love to visit a board that is about running but isn't so bigoted, but I swear there isn't one as good as this elsewhere. Like I mentioned, I should probably just stay on the homepage. But there are so many insights and fun threads you only get from the message boards, but there is so much hate that goes along with it. Incredibly frustrating, to say the least. I've gone to a variety of message boards over the years, from the RottenTomates ones on movies to guitar ones to horror movie ones to Star Wars ones. The only message boards this bigoted I routinely come across are video game ones. It's interesting that they share that in common.

Anyways, I'd love to know of another message board as well, so I'll definitely see if anyone follows up on that.

Really funny. So original

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An overly simple intellectual answer is this: many feminists argue that sexism is not something that men impose on women. It's an idea in our culture that men and boys are superior to women and girls. Objectification of women is one symptom of this. So, women spend a lot of time and money trying to make themselves look good, and all of us (women and men) are constantly looking at women and judging their appearances. Though men are sometimes ogled and judged, it's not the norm. Men don't feel pressure to look hot or sexy all the time, and most of us don't automatically/unconsciously judge men's bodies all the time.

Given the above, it's not surprising that a woman would post a swimsuit picture, basically inviting people to look at her and her friends. I also don't think it's wrong or unexpected for men to comment on it. Objectifying or admiring people's bodies is not inherently wrong or bad, and people on both sides get joy out of it. The problem is that women's looks matter too much in our society. Women are encouraged to be sexy, then they're called sluts when they dress sexy or actually have sex. If they don't try to look sexy, people judge them for being drab or prudish. If women were treated more equally (and really, great strides have been made), then maybe people would be less apt to reduce women to their bodies and be able to admire attractiveness when they see it without being nasty to those who they don't find appealing.[/quote]

Great post. And I agree with what TrackCoach said that you can admire people's looks without reducing them to their looks.

This was said so much better than I could have, but it's incredibly correct. People have to understand that misogyny and sexism have been endemic to Western culture (and probably world culture, for the large part) for a very long time, so its effects are often very subtle, insidious, and hard to pinpoint. I do agree that great advances have been made over the years, and I'm very happy for them. But almost all women I know have suffered from the effects of sexism, so for me to deny its existence would be to essentially say that I, a man, knows better than all of these women.

But I am glad that Rojo approached this from a reasonable point of view. Obviously I have no problem with people disagreeing with me if they do so reasonably or intelligently. Running is definitely a very popular sport with women. When I'm out jogging on the bike path, I tend to see more women than men out there.

It's tough to read the bigotry on here lately, though, and it gets wearing. And I'm sure there's tons of girls that want to post on here openly and talk about the aspects of women's running that probably aren't discussed much on here.

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An overly simple intellectual answer is this: many feminists argue that sexism is not something that men impose on women. It's an idea in our culture that men and boys are superior to women and girls. Objectification of women is one symptom of this. So, women spend a lot of time and money trying to make themselves look good, and all of us (women and men) are constantly looking at women and judging their appearances. Though men are sometimes ogled and judged, it's not the norm. Men don't feel pressure to look hot or sexy all the time, and most of us don't automatically/unconsciously judge men's bodies all the time.

Given the above, it's not surprising that a woman would post a swimsuit picture, basically inviting people to look at her and her friends. I also don't think it's wrong or unexpected for men to comment on it. Objectifying or admiring people's bodies is not inherently wrong or bad, and people on both sides get joy out of it. The problem is that women's looks matter too much in our society. Women are encouraged to be sexy, then they're called sluts when they dress sexy or actually have sex. If they don't try to look sexy, people judge them for being drab or prudish. If women were treated more equally (and really, great strides have been made), then maybe people would be less apt to reduce women to their bodies and be able to admire attractiveness when they see it without being nasty to those who they don't find appealing.[/quote]

Great post. And I agree with what TrackCoach said that you can admire people's looks without reducing them to their looks.

This was said so much better than I could have, but it's incredibly correct. People have to understand that misogyny and sexism have been endemic to Western culture (and probably world culture, for the large part) for a very long time, so its effects are often very subtle, insidious, and hard to pinpoint. I do agree that great advances have been made over the years, and I'm very happy for them. But almost all women I know have suffered from the effects of sexism, so for me to deny its existence would be to essentially say that I, a man, knows better than all of these women.

But I am glad that Rojo approached this from a reasonable point of view. Obviously I have no problem with people disagreeing with me if they do so reasonably or intelligently. Running is definitely a very popular sport with women. When I'm out jogging on the bike path, I tend to see more women than men out there.

It's tough to read the bigotry on here lately, though, and it gets wearing. And I'm sure there's tons of girls that want to post on here openly and talk about the aspects of women's running that probably aren't discussed much on here.

Alan Bennet wrote:

GD wrote:

Though men are sometimes ogled and judged, it's not the norm.

Men are judged according to how much money they make. Feminists also do this. "Not judging men by their looks" does not in any way make women morally superior.

Some men, yes, are judged by other women according to how much money they make. I don't think that's any better than men who judge women solely by their appearance. Judging anyone solely by one thing, I agree, is a pretty crappy thing to do.

I don't personally believe that women are morally superior to men, just like I don't believe that the minorities whites have treated like crap through the centuries are morally superior to said whites. But I don't think that makes it okay what whites HAVE done to them throughout history, and I don't think it's okay to be a bigot or rude towards others who are different than us, or to reduce others to their looks, their skin color, their religion (or lack thereof), etc. People are people. Treat others how you'd like to be treated yourself. I'm not a Christian, but that tenet makes so much sense.

I just hope that some of the people who say ruder things on here about women don't have either daughters or sons themselves. I hope they don't have sons so they don't raise their sons to grow up treating women like that. I hope they don't have daughters, because imagine how that would effect their self-esteem and -image for the rest of their lives.

I am concerned about the younger people who come on here, as I said before, and see how women are treated like trash, and I worry that the younger, more easily influenced people on here will grow up thinking that's normal.

HAC wrote:

Threatening "not coming on here" to people who could care less that you are on Letsrun forums is way more pathetic than gawking at 20 year old college students. Also, if you can't tell which thread is going to obviously have some sexist comments (easily avoidable) then you're also a moron.

I don't think anyone is making threats. I think they're stating their feelings and concerns.

And perhaps people respond in the obviously sexist threads to share their own opinion, just like the people making the sexist comments, and hopefully maybe they can change people's minds, or at least let them hear a differing opinion.

Again, someone writing something far more eloquently than I could have, but I agree with this totally. Great summation!

This could really be made much better if we had mods who appeared to give a damn and didn't spent much of their time (apparently) protecting their own personal reputation.

The internet is the great dragnet - it allows everyone a roughly equal voice in the discussion. It's never been so easy for trolls to disrupt and have their comments elevated alongside well-intentioned posters.

Most message boards that are more civil are in part that way because of much more effective moderation. This is something you can pay for. It's also a feedback loop. Actually moderating the board for a few months would likely eliminate much of the trolling we see by making it seem much less welcome.

Who knows though -- in all likelihood this message will be wiped because it's not nice to the mods.

asdfsfsdfaf wrote:

This could really be made much better if we had mods who appeared to give a damn and didn't spent much of their time (apparently) protecting their own personal reputation.

The internet is the great dragnet - it allows everyone a roughly equal voice in the discussion. It's never been so easy for trolls to disrupt and have their comments elevated alongside well-intentioned posters.

Most message boards that are more civil are in part that way because of much more effective moderation. This is something you can pay for. It's also a feedback loop. Actually moderating the board for a few months would likely eliminate much of the trolling we see by making it seem much less welcome.

Who knows though -- in all likelihood this message will be wiped because it's not nice to the mods.

Haha, I was going to say your last sentence until I saw you already wrote it!

GoldenMiles wrote:

Haha, I was going to say your last sentence until I saw you already wrote it!

It's sick that this is just par for the course. Other communities would full on revolt with the moderating atmosphere that we have.

I guess this must mean there is NO substitute for letsrun if we keep coming back. 10 years or so for me now.

I do love the Brojos tho *mwah*