NO, we won't read your biased crap. You deny the posts about Clinton and Barrack lying repeatedly, why would we read your FAKE NEWS? No, just don't lose too much sleep tonight knowing you lost---ha, ha, haaaaaaaaaa!
NO, we won't read your biased crap. You deny the posts about Clinton and Barrack lying repeatedly, why would we read your FAKE NEWS? No, just don't lose too much sleep tonight knowing you lost---ha, ha, haaaaaaaaaa!
True, I have blown off a lot of the links posted by the Right. I really should be fair and unbiased if I expect others to be. Truly, I'm just a finger pointer and need to grow as an individual. Thanks for setting me straight.
Come on man this is so intellectually lazy Democrats are better than this. You can't just point out 2 of the things he said are that are false to discredit him and then just say everything else he said was wrong how do you ever expect to win anyone over to our side with that attitude. I think he made some good points in that post that were atleast worth debating.
Ive been a Democrat for 30 years and voted for Hilary in 2016 and I'm not very happy with the way my party has handled Trump winning the election. Whether or not you agree with Trump (I don't on 95% of what he does) you can't deny his vision for the country resonated with alot of people and yes a couple hundred thousand people that voted for Obama twice. What democrats lack right now is a vision how are we going to help the American people? Saying that we aren't Trump and yelling RUSSIA isn't a vision and it gives Trump a pretty good chance at re election (Yes he has historically low approval and with changing demographics in the country Democrats won't lose the popular vote again for a long time but the electoral college gives Trump a chance and all he needs to do is keep his support in the Rust belt and Florida and he will win again).
If Trump committed a crime then we should impeach him I don't care who the president is thats the way the country works. Do I think the Russians played a role in the election, yes whether or not Trump played a role in that we will find out. But lets not forget Hilary had every other advantage in her favour 90% of the media, Hollywood, campaign donations, ground game ect all of which in my opinion had 100x the effect and outreach that a couple fake news stories posted on Facebook ever could have had. Yet Trump still found a way to win so why was that.
After a long period of reflection I can say atleast 5 reasons why Trump won (and no Russia doesn't even crack the top 5):
1) Hilary's refusal to embrace the populist left (Bernie voters) I read somewhere that something like in 1/20 Bernie voters voted trump or 3rd party. To deny that this didn't play a huge role given that Bernie won like 40% of the primary votes is to lie.
2) Trumps embrace of populist policies such as bring jobs back, ending wars, renogiating trade deals (many of the tings Bernie ran on hmmmm). well see if Trump follows through or not but ending TPP was a start.
3) I think people were fed up with how tilted the media had become and when Trump continually attacked the media for there biased coverage (not necessarily Fake coverage but you could definitely tell who 90% of the media wanted to win). And by Trump attacking the media I think he rallied a lot of people to his cause
4) No party has help power for more than 8 years since Regan. I think the Right was fired up after 8 years of Obama (who I think did a fine job but obviously they disagree). If Trump had run in 2008 for example I don't think he would have won. When people are struggling like they were in the Rust belt its hard to have the status quo as a winning message even if it is the better option
5) Trump wasn't a politician. What Trump represented as an outsider and someone who supposedly couldn't be bought by self funding his campaign showed people that he was something different and that was intriguing to a lot of people who don't usually vote because they thought Trump could be something different and actually fix some of the problems the country has been facing the last 30 years.
The way the country looks now politically:
- 30% Bernie sanders populist left
- 40% Moderate Hilary Democrats/Kasich-Ryan Moderate Republicans who can find common ground on most things
- 30% Trump populist Right
The only way we beat Trumpism in 2020 (assuming he hasn't been impeached) is by embracing the Democratic Socialist Bernie wing of the party as the only force powerful enough to beat right wing populism is left wing populism.
Which as a moderate Democrat and someone who invest heavily in the stock market is a scary thought as I believe that most of the solutions to our problems lie somewhere in the middle. We a third party someone like Kasich and a democrat as VP (or vice versa) to unite the moderates on the right and left to end this dangerous populist movement we are seeing in the country.
Rant over.
There is so much here that is so wrong that I can't even begin to address it all, so I won't. I will just say that you don't appear to understand my position or my thinking about politics in any way.
nontrumper wrote:
And the Trumpers continue to make this another partisan issue demonstrating the inability to read anything contrary to your beliefs. I'm independent and read sources from both political parties. There are MANY on the right who see Trump for what he is... a fraud. These are not some deep state conspiracy members of the swamp, but intelligent patriots who continue to choose country over party. Enough with tribalism and whataboutism.
This is true. A minority of Americans support Trump.
Whataboutism doesn't fly.
Trump is done.
You mean the guy that called violent racists fine people? The guy posting racist propaganda? I missed the times Obama called violent racists fine people and posted racist propaganda.
Prove it. This is not true.
Your criticisms of Hillary and the Democratic Party are valid, and I agree with them. Doesn't mean though that all the fake advertising the Russians did to prop up Trump and rip Hillary didn't have an effect, and it was FAR more than a "couple fake news stories posted on Facebook"...more than 10 million people in swing states saw those fake ads, and that's just Facebook. Trump news outlets (Fox, Breitbart, etc., INCLUDING THE BIGGEST AM RADIO STATION IN CENTRAL OHIO and for sure others) then spread that stuff on the airwaves. After it was debunked as a fake news story, 610 AM radio in Columbus, OH broadcast that Obama set it up so that his girls' grandmother would get $160,000 a year for life from tax payers. Callers then called in and said stuff like, "that's Obama and Democrats for you!" Was a bunch of crap. That's just one that I personally heard happen (and I contacted the station to rip them for it). For sure it happened more on that station and on tons of others across the country. Morning drive DJs don't check sources.
We can't really get into the effectiveness of those ads though...if it was determined that Trump colluded (conspired) with the Russians, then that is cheating and undermining our election process and is anti-American.
The Democrats definitely need some new blood and a clear vision...but, in times of turmoil, you always need to focus on the bear in the kitchen. In our case it's an orange one. He is so crooked that we have never seen anything remotely close.
You can be a Democrat who wants to see a clear vision for the party and ALSO recognize that Trump is a clear and present danger. You should have strong opinions on both.
Trump is done.
its_baddude wrote:
You mean the guy that called violent racists fine people? The guy posting racist propaganda? I missed the times Obama called violent racists fine people and posted racist propaganda.
Prove it. This is not true.
What are you talking about?
"You have very fine people...on both sides" - Donald J. Trump
He is racist against Mexicans, black people, Muslims, and I'm sure anyone who isn't white, and probably even many of those. From ripping on a judge from Indiana who has Mexican ancestry to wanting a "Muslim ban" and on and on and on. Obama wasn't born in the US, a view he still supposedly holds. If he isn't racist, then racism isn't a thing...dude, he's clearly racist.
Pick another topic that you might have a chance of discussion on...this one is cut and dried.
Trump is done.
So you liberals claim to deal in facts. I'm still waiting.
You are taking this out of context. He did not say the violent racist are fine people. He said there were non racist protesting among the racist.
To see if you are smart, explain this.
"Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night and decided they’d go kill some Americans,"
what difference – at this point, what difference does it make?" - Hillary explaining the Benghazi attack
Called black kids superpredators
“We need to take these people on, they are often connected to big drug cartels, they are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators. No conscience. No empathy."
If you want, we can a real discussion.
Prove it. You saying so it not proof.
This does not prove sh*t. Politifact, is bias as hell and reflect political truths, not facts. A problem that liberals have no understanding of. Take for example this lie attributed to trump "Hillary Clinton lied many times to the FBI." Their proof is that Comey said she didn't lie, and white house provided no evidence. compare that to: There is no proof of any Trump Russian collusion and the white house denies it. Yet we have the press and media trying to find something, plus a special counsel. We now find all kind of corruption in the FBI when dealing with the Clinton investigation.
Rigged for Trump wrote:
Here is something else for them to chew on:
Hillary:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/Barack:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/Trump:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/I rest my case.
This lie is not in the Politifact database. Telling people to remove "classified" markings from paper and send it via email. It is so obvious.
Explain this interview with Obama. Illegals can vote?
RODRIGUEZ: Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens — and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country — are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?
OBAMA: Not true. And the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself. And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, et cetera. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential in terms of who you voted for. If you have a family member who maybe is undocumented, then you have an even greater reason to vote.
Al Franken got railroaded and bullied by the Democratic leadership. He should not resign if he is innocent. I don't care if he is a liberal.
Another example of party over country.
This is going to backfire badly for them. Pants on fire lie, not even a maybe?
its_baddude wrote:
This is going to backfire badly for them. Pants on fire lie, not even a maybe?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/dec/08/blog-posting/no-roy-moore-accuser-didnt-tamper-or-forge-yearboo/
Did CNN doctor the picture?http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171115170159-beverly-young-nelson-yearbook-signature-exlarge-169.jpg
its_baddude wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/B7onjPZ.jpgits_baddude wrote:
This is going to backfire badly for them. Pants on fire lie, not even a maybe?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/dec/08/blog-posting/no-roy-moore-accuser-didnt-tamper-or-forge-yearboo/
Do you support the Bernie wing of the Party? From my point of view we are way more divided than the republicans at the moment.
Liberals are foolish and spineless. They hate the United States. They smell like Hillary’s constant wet farts. They are limp and stupid.
Flagpole doesn't deal in facts. He simply says what he wants and claims it to be right.
HRC was a clearly a racist.
Obama used the race card to get elected.
Flagpole. No she's not.
Flagpole. No he didn't.
HRC voted against illegal immigration. He knows that, but....no she didn't.
HRC voted for the Wall in 2005. He knows that, but...no she didn't.
Trump says he'll put up a Wall, he's racist against Mexicans.
Honestly, he has zero substance and can barely make a clear point that's factual.
Dude, you're making sense, Flagpole would never agree with you, he's a politician wanna be, but never could.
He's a biased brain dead democrat.
Politifact is well-known, welk regarded, and has something called a Pulitzer prize winning publication. You caterwauling about "it's bulls**t" doesn't make it so. You're raging away on this thread every Friday night. Don't you have friends or family? Sad.