Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

This is a calculated and concerted move. Either they have something really convincing here (for the public, not the Republican Senate) or they are actually timing to draw this out through election to maximize the PR damage at the right time. If they can at least disgrace the president by revealing a straight forward criminal act they give themselves a massive advantage. Of course Rs aren’t going to vote against him, but perhaps at least this creates a drift in the GOP.

Bill’s popularity rose after impeachment because everyone knew he was lying about an affair. We are talking about something much darker and nefarious here. Dems cleaned house in 2018 - much of that on trump hate alone. If there is substance to this new issue they will fry him hard enough to fk his chances completely.

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner.

It was never about removing Trump. It's about creating an environment toxic to the GOP, thus regaining the Senate and adding House seats.

I don't believe one party should have all of the control so I'm not a fan of Dem Senate control but there needs to be a way around obstructionism.

Alan

By most standards these are a series of events that without a doubt indicate pure manipulation of tax payer money and the compromising of united states international objectives to put pressure on a country threatened both by a Russian presence and economic difficulties for Trump's political advantage.

But Republicans who refuse to accept what is obvious to most, will claim that Trump didn't threaten Zelensky with a loss of payment and Republicans will claim there is no direct evidence that withholding the payment and investigating Biden are related. But there is no other reasonable explanation for what occurred, and Trump has given conflicting reasons.

By the way, Zelensky and Trump are meeting today. What do you think they will be talking about? I'm guessing it will be a very private meeting with no transcript.

Ciro wrote:

kibitzer wrote:

I agree: This info was available and fairly widely reported in 2016.

And yet, then and now, I've heard and read a *ton* of comments about how Trumpistas are trailer-park denizens, toothless ignoramuses, and so on. NOT TRUE--and if the Dems (I'm not just thinking of candidates--I mean ALL Dems) don't start to understand who Trump's people really are, they're going to have trouble beating him.

I think most people paying attention see through that lazy narrative.

It's more complex than that. This is a good read (WSJ usually gives you at least 1 free article read):

Summary :

- Democrats' share of real GDP by congressional district in 2018 was 69%

- A decade ago, median household income was about the same for each party. Since then, it has jumped nearly 17% in Democratic districts while falling 3% in Republican ones

- People with college degrees are more concentrated in Democratic districts than in Republican districts.

Republicans and Democrats have less and less in common. When you lack common ground, it becomes difficult to empathize or meet in the middle

They are probably getting their story straight. Zelensky will come out in support of Trump and say he never felt pressured to investigate Biden's son....but will still do so as part of a larger investigation into corruption.

Trump's entire presidency should be an eye opener for our system of government. Power hasn't been slowly consolidating in the executive branch for quite some time. It has shifted over the last 100 years or more and needs to shift back and find balance.

The executive branch is basically above the law in how it is currently set up. The House is basically powerless. The true power in Congress lies in the Senate.

Remove the filibuster. Remove the DOJ policy on not indicting sitting presidents. Force SCOTUS appointments after a certain number of days after a vacancy. Force Senate votes on House bills.

Alan

I believe that Trump severely violated his oath of office. He obstructed justice and abused power of his office to push personal needs over country and he deserves impeachment and removal from office. Of course that won't happen and as you have indicated so this now becomes a political trial.

The voting electorate need to understand and to be angered by the level of abuse Trump has perpetrated. Its now all about the elections. The democrats need to make a compelling but straightforward (easily understood) case of his abuses.

What do you think of one of my theses - that Biden might be a president who is willing to hand power back to the congress. Because he is an elder statesman without a massive revolutionary agenda to carry out via the WH. I think he might fall on his sword and do the right thing by resetting the relationship between congress and the executive branch.

certainly warren wouldn't do that.

Ciro wrote:

Conundrum wrote:

Trump withholds a 400 million dollar payment to Ukraine until his request that they investigate biden. He makes numerous requests then after one of the meetings he then released money. He gives conflicting answer on why the money was held back and he had no reason why the money was then released.

Now most likely he doesn't come out and say investigate or you won't get your money, but the message is clear.

This is clear and significant abuse of power.

Agreed.

Also agreed.

Power was never taken from Congress. What happened is that Congress increasingly decided to stop doing their job as a result of general unwillingness to work together and with an attitude of "I'll just take my ball and go home!" This left the door open for the executive branch to get creative

What do you think of one of my theses - American people will stop electing these politicians to office for the 30th term in a row. Just kidding, that'll never happen because Americans secretly love grid-lock

That is a good summary of today's reality.

Rigged for Hillary wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Report intelligence community IG says whistleblower is a partisan supporter of a Democratic Presidential candidate.

Crooked Alzheimer Joe is done. Americans are not electing Angry Bernie or Pocahontas. And it turns out the so called whistleblower is a DNC puppet. LOL!!!

A Trump landslide is coming.

KAG2020

Source that the whistleblower is a partisan Democrat?

Also, how do you explain away that Trump and Giuliani already admitted to a crime here? We have enough just from their own mouths to know that what they both did was illegal and very serious.

I'll hang up and listen.

kibitzer wrote:

Ciro wrote:

That’s hardly ground breaking news, those facts and figures were reported relatively quickly after the dust settled. They tore holes in the “forgotten man” narrative.

I agree: This info was available and fairly widely reported in 2016.

And yet, then and now, I've heard and read a *ton* of comments about how Trumpistas are trailer-park denizens, toothless ignoramuses, and so on. NOT TRUE--and if the Dems (I'm not just thinking of candidates--I mean ALL Dems) don't start to understand who Trump's people really are, they're going to have trouble beating him.

Neither income nor a college degree can take the trailer trash ignorant core out of a Trump supporter.

We have an official impeachment inquiry which doesn't feel much different than the investigations already ongoing.

What is different is that the Mueller investigation was all about what Trump did as a candidate and the obstruction he then did as president. There were several layers and it was complicated.

This inquiry is about a more simple situation and it all occurred with Trump as president. In fact in happened after the Mueller report came out.

This starts a new clock.

The inquiry could last a year before an impeachment vote is cast. Or there may be no vote.

But it is the House's version of an open trial.

They will ask Trump to testify. If he declines, it doesn't look good for him and if he testifies he will perjure himself about something.

Or it could happen quickly. That depends on what comes out and if Republicans get on board.

I can see Pelosi dragging this out and leaving Trump twisting.

As far as Trump releasing the transcript of the call:

Please. It's either going to have sharpie marks all over it or it will be the release of a benign call with any important discussions being withheld. We're not stupid enough to accept whatever he turns over.

If donny needed Russia for one election & now needs them plus Ukraine for the next election, he obviously worries about whether anyone will vote for him.

Flagpole wrote:

Trollminator wrote:

He had another massive failure - he was modest and never took credit for any of the goods things that happened while he was president. The economy is a great example, he never boasted, so that allowed right wing media to convince people the economy was somehow in terrible shape.

There is a common denominator of course - it’s the retarded public. Our citizens, especially the common folk, don’t just lack education, they lack common sense and the ability to think through anything slightly complex - even establishing direct cause and effect relationships seem too difficult for most. Trump is great at mobilizing these people, he sure gets them...

That is a good summary of today's reality.

Joking and hyperbole aside (because I guess I don't actually believe they're literally retarded), the common folk have been assaulted over the past 25 years or so with unwavering cynicism and have been told to doubt everything. It's a culture that's been fueled by endless streams of entertainment, obscure theories from bloggers, and a fear of increasing irrelevance. This is prominent on the left and right

Another good summary from you today (not intended to mean you don't usually do that).

I agree that the Democrats are pretty confident here. The biggest thing is that Trump already admitted looking for dirt on Biden and his son from Ukraine. Not sure what much else is needed. He obviously thinks that behavior is ok...he said as much to Stephanopoulos. His ignorance about the law does not allow him to get off the hook.

Completely unacceptable behavior. If a Democrat President used the power of his/her office to strong arm another country into investigating a political opponent before the next election, Republicans would lose their freakin' minds...AND RIGHTLY SO!

This behavior is criminal, it is anti-American, it is self before country. The fact that Senate Republicans might protect him from conviction is shameful to the nth degree.

agip wrote:

What do you think of one of my theses - that Biden might be a president who is willing to hand power back to the congress. Because he is an elder statesman without a massive revolutionary agenda to carry out via the WH. I think he might fall on his sword and do the right thing by resetting the relationship between congress and the executive branch.

certainly warren wouldn't do that.

Warren is a reformer and a true believer. I believe that she would give back power and she might be more likely to do it than Biden.

Both should be grilled on this point before the primaries.

I think that no matter which Democrate wins the White House in 2020, there will be major reforms. This happened after Watergate and I expect it will happen again.

There will be a perception problem, but only because the bulk of Americans don't pay attention and aren't properly informed.

Some things:

1) While SOME Democrats have been screaming for impeachment for 2 years, most of the leadership has not been.

2) What has caused Democrats to act now is that this is NEW behavior from the President, he has admitted to a crime, it has to do with behavior that could affect an upcoming election rather than a past one (can't be accused of sour grapes due to election result), and this situation has been described as "urgent concern" by the IC IG, a Trump appointee.

Flagpole wrote:

Trollminator wrote:

He had another massive failure - he was modest and never took credit for any of the goods things that happened while he was president. The economy is a great example, he never boasted, so that allowed right wing media to convince people the economy was somehow in terrible shape.

There is a common denominator of course - it’s the retarded public. Our citizens, especially the common folk, don’t just lack education, they lack common sense and the ability to think through anything slightly complex - even establishing direct cause and effect relationships seem too difficult for most. Trump is great at mobilizing these people, he sure gets them...

That is a good summary of today's reality.

+1

and that is one reason the founders wanted the country to have so much less democracy - worry about uneducated masses making terrible decisions for the nation. We've added democracy over the years. It has usually worked, but a snake oil salesman conned enough people to win .

Senators were not meant to be directly elected

The president was not meant to be directly elected

Only the House was directly elected.

While not what the founders intended, for centuries we had political parties choosing presidential candidates. That had flaws, but it screened out the terrible people. Party primaries didn't use to select nominees. The party primary system we have recently adopted has serious flaws - mostly that the people who vote in primaries are not representative of the nation.

Difficult stuff. And if Fox didn't exist the problem would probably not be so severe. But it does, and as a result we are being led by our worst, voted in by the ignorant.