Fat hurts wrote:
I always cringe when someone says that Americans won't do certain jobs. That's utter baloney.
You are wrong about that. Go ask a farmer who his/her best workers are. Then ask him/her about his/her experience with American workers trying to do the same work.
Two Sides wrote:
I read an article the other day about undocumented workers being more reliable at kitchen jobs while the Americans would quit after one day if they took the job at all.
Another reason, other than what you posted about the work being worth more than minimum, is that many of the employers are not passing on payroll taxes to the government. The employers can keep more money in their pocket while paying a high wage. The incentive to take advantage to line one's own pockets is very strong. More stronger than any desire to follow the law to letter. Now, understand that and then it makes sense why Trump and the Republicans have gutted the IRS auditing staff.
Two Sides wrote:
To summarize:
The demand for many types of minimum wage jobs is higher than the amount of American citizens available to fill them.
Not correct.
This is correct (strike minimum). The demand for many types of jobs is is higher than the amount of American citizens WILLING to fill them.
Donald J. Trump
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@realDonaldTrump
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!
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X-Runner wrote:
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!
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6:50 AM - Mar 2, 2018
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Trump is too ignorant to understand that sulking to get one's way does not work in the real world. His solution to weakly hit back 10x harder is a bigly joke coming from a wannabe-man who is incapable of throwing a punch.
Two Sides wrote:
Our sons and daughters don't want to do landscaping and house cleaning 40 hours a week for a living, regardless if it's a decent wage. Not enough of them to fill the demand, anyway.
I personally employ native-born Americans for both yard work and house cleaning. And they both do these jobs full time.
My cleaning lady quit her part time job driving a school bus so she could spend more time cleaning houses.
It's all about the wages.
Fat hurts wrote:
Two Sides wrote:
Our sons and daughters don't want to do landscaping and house cleaning 40 hours a week for a living, regardless if it's a decent wage. Not enough of them to fill the demand, anyway.
I personally employ native-born Americans for both yard work and house cleaning. And they both do these jobs full time.
My cleaning lady quit her part time job driving a school bus so she could spend more time cleaning houses.
It's all about the wages.
It also has a lot to do with not working for someone else.
Your evidence is anecdotal and doesn't keep up with the trend on the macro level.
Just because you can cite some Americans that will do that does not mean the demand is met overall.
Two Sides wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
When someone says, "Undocumented workers do the jobs that Americans won't do," what they really mean is, "Undocumented workers will accept third-world wages."
I'ts true that undocumented workers will accept lower wages but it's not true that these jobs are below minimum wage.
I read an article the other day about undocumented workers being more reliable at kitchen jobs while the Americans would quit after one day if they took the job at all.
It's not all third-world wages.
With low unemployment, people want good jobs and yes, there are some crappy jobs in high demand that are hard to be filled by American citizens who have better opportunities.
Our sons and daughters don't want to do landscaping and house cleaning 40 hours a week for a living, regardless if it's a decent wage. Not enough of them to fill the demand, anyway.
With low unemployment, it doesn't matter if American citizens would do the jobs, because (in theory) there aren't enough unemployed American citizens to fill those jobs. So, the solution would be to either make the jobs more enticing (higher wages) or increase the labor pool (through legal immigration). The issue that I have is that instead of hiring legal immigrants, some companies instead deliberately hire illegal immigrants in order to save money (by paying wages in cash and avoiding payroll taxes).
So ultimately, if you don't want companies to hire illegal immigrants, and unemployment is low, you need to increase the labor pool by allowing more legal immigrants. This can certainly be with a temporary work visa. And while I hardly mean to defend companies that hire illegal immigrants, if the labor pool is truly scarce, how else can they hire enough workers?
Two Sides wrote:
To summarize:
The demand for many types of minimum wage jobs is higher than the amount of American citizens available to fill them.
That is very true.
First, we need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage.
Second, we need the reforms for undocumented workers that have already been mentioned.
Third, we need guest workers from other nations for times when we have a shortage of workers.
But everyone needs to make a living wage. That way, every American willing to work can proudly raise a family off his or her income. Then the taxpayers don't have to pay for welfare programs to support underpaid workers (which is really just a form of corporate welfare). Plus, immigrants are no longer exploited.
They don't wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I always cringe when someone says that Americans won't do certain jobs. That's utter baloney.
You are wrong about that. Go ask a farmer who his/her best workers are. Then ask him/her about his/her experience with American workers trying to do the same work.
So you are saying Americans are genetically inferior?
Or are you saying Americans are just lazy by nature?
Latinos are not better than Americans at farm work. Americans have done those jobs for centuries and built this country into what it is today.
That farmer just wants an excuse to pay his workers less.
"Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China"
This has to be repeated.
Trump is going to a new level of insanity.
The president cannot order American companies to do anything.
He really thinks he is a dictator.
Sally and Rigged are you cool with this?
Is he finally going too far?
agip wrote:
truly we have a moron in the white house. ordering companies what to do. trying to cut trade links to the second largest economy in the world. When's it going to be enough for you, republicans? when? even if she shoots someone he's ok with you, I know.
https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/1164916254676783105?s=20
Behind the scenes, congressional Republicans are calling up Democrats and begging them to speed up the impeachment inquiry.
If Tiny keeps escalating the trade war like this, Democrats are going to end up owning DC for a long time.
I am surprised no one has posted this yet. This is a HUGE political news.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaire-businessman-david-koch-dead-at-79-132246911.html
Fat hurts wrote:
agip wrote:
truly we have a moron in the white house. ordering companies what to do. trying to cut trade links to the second largest economy in the world. When's it going to be enough for you, republicans? when? even if she shoots someone he's ok with you, I know.
https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/1164916254676783105?s=20Behind the scenes, congressional Republicans are calling up Democrats and begging them to speed up the impeachment inquiry.
If Tiny keeps escalating the trade war like this, Democrats are going to end up owning DC for a long time.
Rs have no backbone.
Remember Republican boys and girls.
Our friends are Kim Jong Un, Putin and Xi.
Our enemies are the free press, the federal reserve and AOC.
Enlighten wrote:
econ101 wrote:
Please enlighten us as to what impact the points in your post would have on the economy?
Ahem, no. You first. Prove your expertise. Otherwise, you are just a trolling ... a very weak troll.
Hi Flagpole!
Fat hurts wrote:
They don't wrote:
You are wrong about that. Go ask a farmer who his/her best workers are. Then ask him/her about his/her experience with American workers trying to do the same work.
So you are saying Americans are genetically inferior?
Or are you saying Americans are just lazy by nature?
Latinos are not better than Americans at farm work. Americans have done those jobs for centuries and built this country into what it is today.
That farmer just wants an excuse to pay his workers less.
Go ask a farmer.
Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:
I am surprised no one has posted this yet. This is a HUGE political news.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaire-businessman-david-koch-dead-at-79-132246911.html
meh. there are more kochs and adelsons and mercers.
Fat hurts wrote:
They don't wrote:
You are wrong about that. Go ask a farmer who his/her best workers are. Then ask him/her about his/her experience with American workers trying to do the same work.
Americans have done those jobs for centuries and built this country into what it is today.
The thing is that, as slaves, we didn't even get paid for those jobs that built this country what it is today. And we were not considered Americans.
Fat hurts wrote:
They don't wrote:
You are wrong about that. Go ask a farmer who his/her best workers are. Then ask him/her about his/her experience with American workers trying to do the same work.
So you are saying Americans are genetically inferior?
Or are you saying Americans are just lazy by nature?
Latinos are not better than Americans at farm work. Americans have done those jobs for centuries and built this country into what it is today.
That farmer just wants an excuse to pay his workers less.
Americans have done those jobs for centuries and built this country??? WTF Try slave labor doing that, bubba.