Runningart2004 wrote:
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-reason-for-the-electoral-college/
When you read that it's pretty clear that the actual goal of the electoral college was to prevent someone like Trump from winning the presidency.
Runningart2004 wrote:
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-reason-for-the-electoral-college/
When you read that it's pretty clear that the actual goal of the electoral college was to prevent someone like Trump from winning the presidency.
agip wrote:
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
This is false framing. Keep taking your talking points from Republicants and you will play into their hands.
Health insurance is not health care. Nobody's health care would get taken away under a single payer plan. The delivery mechanism would be changed, it would eliminate enormous amounts of bureaucratic costs and would mean that money would go towards health care rather than insurance company profits.
Single payer would cover everybody and save $2 trillion. It is easily the absolutely best, no brainer policy proposal.
fair enough - I'm assuming people understand how this works so I'm using shorthand.
But telling tens of millions of people that they have to abandon the private health insurance they like is indeed taking away their health insurance. A lot of Ds assume that the country is a Warren-esque hellscape of misery and anger, eager for change and newness. It's not. Most people do not want their economic and health care upturned and put at the mercy of bureaucrats. I mean millions of union workers have negotiated for health care...that's gone? Everyone has to throw all their health care insurance into the air and take whatever falls their way?
It might work out in the end, it probably would. But in the meantime you are making an enormous ask of people who are getting good health care.
And you are destroying the jobs of millions of people in the health care industry.
None of this is easy, but the Ds are promising chaos and no one knows how the private insurance industry would get taken out. That's not a great platform plank.
Since you agree it would probably "work out in the end", I think you are really worried about how it plays with moderates. It's not unreasonable to be worried that many Americans would be scared of this change.
But Medicare-for-all is really an easy sell. Everybody loves Medicare. Ask anyone on Medicare if they would trade it for private insurance. You won't get any takers.
So we take this great plan called Medicare, and we give it to everyone. It's easy to explain and Americans will want it once they understand it.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Holy sh!t! He's nailed it. I agree with agip.
Yup. This is what happens when a so-called "moderate" takes his talking points straight from the Republican playbook.
One democrats have given up on actual policy to make people lives better, there really isn't any compelling reason to vote for them.
agip, when you find yourself in agreement with this guy, you may want to rethink your priors.
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Holy sh!t! He's nailed it. I agree with agip.
Yup. This is what happens when a so-called "moderate" takes his talking points straight from the Republican playbook.
One democrats have given up on actual policy to make people lives better, there really isn't any compelling reason to vote for them.
agip, when you find yourself in agreement with this guy, you may want to rethink your priors.
too bad you think the only valid, accurate and helpful political viewpoints are those in lockstep with the most progressive parts of one party.
Usually that's called having blinkers on.
Flagpole wrote:
Sinner wrote:
I told you! lol
You want to equate the phrase "Betting on America" to actually placing a bet? That is not the same thing at all. Looks like I responded and so you were wrong. Really not worthy of my response though, but I have a rather lazy day today, so I responded.
Ummmm. It's right there on the slogan, slomo - "BETTING on America."
Are you really this obtuse?
agip wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
The sky is not falling.
The early front runner rarely if ever wins the nomination for either party. 2016 was an exception when both early front runners won out.
The candidates are not too liberal not do they have character issues.
Remember when Obama, a black man pushing for universal health care, won the presidency? He was painted the most liberal senator because in 2007 he was (due mostly to a lack of votes), but even in '06 and '05 he was no where near the center.
Remember when Bill Clinton just kept bouncing back from his allegations?
I think Biden is well past his time and would have easily won in 2016. He's too old. We need to stop electing the elderly into the highest office in the land.
I want to support Harris. She's not Bernie Sanders or Warren. She's not an ideologue.
Alan
she may not be an ideologue but she's promised to take away half the nation's health care and basically pledged to reopen some very vivid racial hurts to support fed mandated bussing, a policy almost no one wants.
I'd be fine with Harris if she tacks toward the center and stops making ridiculous campaign stands that will alienate huge gobs of the Dem party and every anti-trump republican.
WTF R U talking about? She has definitely NOT "promised to take away half the nation's health care."
Try to talk about reality, dude.
agip wrote:
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
Yup. This is what happens when a so-called "moderate" takes his talking points straight from the Republican playbook.
One democrats have given up on actual policy to make people lives better, there really isn't any compelling reason to vote for them.
agip, when you find yourself in agreement with this guy, you may want to rethink your priors.
too bad you think the only valid, accurate and helpful political viewpoints are those in lockstep with the most progressive parts of one party.
Usually that's called having blinkers on.
100% correct. Libs, listen to agip. The Dem candidates have gone off the rails and you're too blind to see it. Either get back to centrist positions or watch Trump's landslide victory in 2020. You have been warned.
KAG2020
agip wrote:
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
This is false framing. Keep taking your talking points from Republicants and you will play into their hands.
Health insurance is not health care. Nobody's health care would get taken away under a single payer plan. The delivery mechanism would be changed, it would eliminate enormous amounts of bureaucratic costs and would mean that money would go towards health care rather than insurance company profits.
Single payer would cover everybody and save $2 trillion. It is easily the absolutely best, no brainer policy proposal.
fair enough - I'm assuming people understand how this works so I'm using shorthand.
But telling tens of millions of people that they have to abandon the private health insurance they like is indeed taking away their health insurance. A lot of Ds assume that the country is a Warren-esque hellscape of misery and anger, eager for change and newness. It's not. Most people do not want their economic and health care upturned and put at the mercy of bureaucrats. I mean millions of union workers have negotiated for health care...that's gone? Everyone has to throw all their health care insurance into the air and take whatever falls their way?
It might work out in the end, it probably would. But in the meantime you are making an enormous ask of people who are getting good health care.
And you are destroying the jobs of millions of people in the health care industry.
None of this is easy, but the Ds are promising chaos and no one knows how the private insurance industry would get taken out. That's not a great platform plank.
1) Medicare works.
2) Switching to Medicare for all would save trillions overall.
3) Saving money is the same thing as destroying jobs. If you want to create jobs let's go back to horses and carriages - plenty of jobs making buggy whips.
agip wrote:
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
Yup. This is what happens when a so-called "moderate" takes his talking points straight from the Republican playbook.
One democrats have given up on actual policy to make people lives better, there really isn't any compelling reason to vote for them.
agip, when you find yourself in agreement with this guy, you may want to rethink your priors.
too bad you think the only valid, accurate and helpful political viewpoints are those in lockstep with the most progressive parts of one party.
Usually that's called having blinkers on.
It's called being reality based.
Flagpole wrote:
Sinner wrote:
I told you! lol
You want to equate the phrase "Betting on America" to actually placing a bet? That is not the same thing at all. Looks like I responded and so you were wrong. Really not worthy of my response though, but I have a rather lazy day today, so I responded.
I was wrong. It does fit your small-minded narrative.
The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.
reality check yourself wrote:
agip wrote:
too bad you think the only valid, accurate and helpful political viewpoints are those in lockstep with the most progressive parts of one party.
Usually that's called having blinkers on.
It's called being reality based.
my dude,
if you think the next president will usher in one payer, or free college, or pack the supreme court, or get rid of the electoral college etc...then I think you'll agree that marita Koch was probably clean.
P wrote:
agip wrote:
fair enough - I'm assuming people understand how this works so I'm using shorthand.
But telling tens of millions of people that they have to abandon the private health insurance they like is indeed taking away their health insurance. A lot of Ds assume that the country is a Warren-esque hellscape of misery and anger, eager for change and newness. It's not. Most people do not want their economic and health care upturned and put at the mercy of bureaucrats. I mean millions of union workers have negotiated for health care...that's gone? Everyone has to throw all their health care insurance into the air and take whatever falls their way?
It might work out in the end, it probably would. But in the meantime you are making an enormous ask of people who are getting good health care.
And you are destroying the jobs of millions of people in the health care industry.
None of this is easy, but the Ds are promising chaos and no one knows how the private insurance industry would get taken out. That's not a great platform plank.
1) Medicare works.
2) Switching to Medicare for all would save trillions overall.
3) Saving money is the same thing as destroying jobs. If you want to create jobs let's go back to horses and carriages - plenty of jobs making buggy whips.
well it's true that half the nation wants that.
agip wrote:
reality check yourself wrote:
It's called being reality based.
my dude,
if you think the next president will usher in one payer, or free college, or pack the supreme court, or get rid of the electoral college etc...then I think you'll agree that marita Koch was probably clean.
Wow! agip, you are absolutely destroying the libs. I'm taking a break for the rest of the day. You are doing all the work for me.
Thanks!
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
This is false framing. Keep taking your talking points from Republicants and you will play into their hands.
Health insurance is not health care. Nobody's health care would get taken away under a single payer plan. The delivery mechanism would be changed, it would eliminate enormous amounts of bureaucratic costs and would mean that money would go towards health care rather than insurance company profits.
Single payer would cover everybody and save $2 trillion. It is easily the absolutely best, no brainer policy proposal.
$2T saved? LOL!!!! Reminds me of the time when Obama promised to save $2500 per year on premiums and you get to keep your doctor too.
Right, just like when your dear leader promised to wipe out our +$16T debt in 4 years right you hypocrite
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
agip wrote:
too bad you think the only valid, accurate and helpful political viewpoints are those in lockstep with the most progressive parts of one party.
Usually that's called having blinkers on.
100% correct. Libs, listen to agip. The Dem candidates have gone off the rails and you're too blind to see it. Either get back to centrist positions or watch Trump's landslide victory in 2020. You have been warned.
KAG2020
Not to worry, no matter how far off the rails they may go it’s not even close to joe off the rails your dear leader has gone. Hatred for trump will top any candidate concerns, just check the 2018 results, some pretty fkn weak and inexperienced Dems demolished Rs.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Wow! agip, you are absolutely destroying the libs. I'm taking a break for the rest of the day. You are doing all the work for me.
Thanks!
That is what agip's goal is. He is the one who pretends to be a dem, but then undermines any reason to actual vote dem. Incapable of learning from the last election, he seeks to run an exact repeat of it.
agip wrote:
P wrote:
1) Medicare works.
2) Switching to Medicare for all would save trillions overall.
3) Saving money is the same thing as destroying jobs. If you want to create jobs let's go back to horses and carriages - plenty of jobs making buggy whips.
well it's true that half the nation wants that.
You are way too concerned about Dems reaching out too far to the left. Do you really think it’s going to hurt them to throw a few bones to the day dreaming liberals out there? Obama did that plenty and things turned out well. The main factors are going to be whether max hatred for trump can be achieved leading up to election and that the Dem candidate is at least likable.
its called a strategy wrote:
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Wow! agip, you are absolutely destroying the libs. I'm taking a break for the rest of the day. You are doing all the work for me.
Thanks!
That is what agip's goal is. He is the one who pretends to be a dem, but then undermines any reason to actual vote dem. Incapable of learning from the last election, he seeks to run an exact repeat of it.
yes, me and 72% of the Democratic Party are undermining any reasons to actually vote Dem. Good point.
https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/1143617110850981888?s=20Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
well it's true that half the nation wants that.
You are way too concerned about Dems reaching out too far to the left. Do you really think it’s going to hurt them to throw a few bones to the day dreaming liberals out there? Obama did that plenty and things turned out well. The main factors are going to be whether max hatred for trump can be achieved leading up to election and that the Dem candidate is at least likable.
Hope you are right. But remember that a main reason trump won is that the upper midwest and rural PAers decided that R values are closer to their own than D values. Ds decidedly do not need to go even further away from moderate American values on so many things.
agip wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
You are way too concerned about Dems reaching out too far to the left. Do you really think it’s going to hurt them to throw a few bones to the day dreaming liberals out there? Obama did that plenty and things turned out well. The main factors are going to be whether max hatred for trump can be achieved leading up to election and that the Dem candidate is at least likable.
Hope you are right. But remember that a main reason trump won is that the upper midwest and rural PAers decided that R values are closer to their own than D values. Ds decidedly do not need to go even further away from moderate American values on so many things.
1) Obama did pretty well there and in Wisconsin, Michigan, and even Florida. I don’t believe voters have changed their mind that much. 2) Hillary was not only despised, she ran a terrible campaign.
Trump hatred + likable Dem = trump defeat. The rest is fluff
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