Jill Stein caused Hillary to lose a couple states by giving a further left choice.
Jill Stein caused Hillary to lose a couple states by giving a further left choice.
Sally Vix wrote:
The basic argument that Warren and Bernie aren't radical is that given the structure of our government and the 60 vote necessity in the senate to do anything and the 50 states...Bernie and warren wouldn't be able to do anything radical anyway. but they would be more foreceful voices for reform to help the poors and middles than a Biden would be.
In other words, very little will get done either way - Sanders/warren will get something done and be very loud and Biden won't get anything done and will not be very loud.
The fact that there are forces in place in our government to prevent radicals like Warren and Bernie from implementing their extreme measures does not make them any less radical. It just makes them impotent. If Biden was to win and the Democrats were able to capture the Senate, then Biden could do quite a bit BECAUSE he is seen as a moderate. Perhaps the longest-lasting would be nominations and confirmations of Supreme Court justices.[/quote]
Leave it to agip to totally misstate the case. He isn't even willing to admit that income inequality is rising
The case is that the things Bernie and Warren want to do are not radical and are popular with voters.
Raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy.
Implementing a national health insurance (which would provide universal coverage AND save money)
Limiting the corporate kleptocracy ransacking out our public treasury
Raising the minimum wage
Making sure that middle class people can afford a home and education
protecting women's ability to make their own health care decisions
These are not radical positions.
agip wrote:
Is your that if a lefty is supported by a majority of Ds... then he or she would also be supported by Rs and Indies?
In other words, cynically, you are saying 'if only the lefties would support a lefty...then the righties and indies would too'
He's saying that the idea that you can't run anybody other than a moderate because only a moderate can win a general election is unsupported by evidence. Lots of moderates lose national elections. Biden is very likely to be a moderate that would lose in the general.
Not surprised this would elude you.
of course not wrote:
agip wrote:
Is your that if a lefty is supported by a majority of Ds... then he or she would also be supported by Rs and Indies?
In other words, cynically, you are saying 'if only the lefties would support a lefty...then the righties and indies would too'
He's saying that the idea that you can't run anybody other than a moderate because only a moderate can win a general election is unsupported by evidence. Lots of moderates lose national elections. Biden is very likely to be a moderate that would lose in the general.
Not surprised this would elude you.
ok so we're arguing that even though a lefty can't get through the D primary, he or she could win the general.
ok.
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
The basic argument that Warren and Bernie aren't radical is that given the structure of our government and the 60 vote necessity in the senate to do anything and the 50 states...Bernie and warren wouldn't be able to do anything radical anyway. but they would be more foreceful voices for reform to help the poors and middles than a Biden would be.
In other words, very little will get done either way - Sanders/warren will get something done and be very loud and Biden won't get anything done and will not be very loud.
The fact that there are forces in place in our government to prevent radicals like Warren and Bernie from implementing their extreme measures does not make them any less radical. It just makes them impotent. If Biden was to win and the Democrats were able to capture the Senate, then Biden could do quite a bit BECAUSE he is seen as a moderate. Perhaps the longest-lasting would be nominations and confirmations of Supreme Court justices.
Leave it to agip to totally misstate the case. He isn't even willing to admit that income inequality is rising
The case is that the things Bernie and Warren want to do are not radical and are popular with voters.
Raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy.
Implementing a national health insurance (which would provide universal coverage AND save money)
Limiting the corporate kleptocracy ransacking out our public treasury
Raising the minimum wage
Making sure that middle class people can afford a home and education
protecting women's ability to make their own health care decisions
These are not radical positions.[/quote]
Why did you have to manipulate what people wrote? You made it like I wrote what agip had written. Why do that if you are serious about a discussion? And is infanticide not radical?
Sally Vix wrote:
Why did you have to manipulate what people wrote? You made it like I wrote what agip had written. Why do that if you are serious about a discussion? And is infanticide not radical?
That was a mistake and I apologize. I hate bulk copying entire posts so I try to only keep the relevant parts and delete everything else. I messed up the formatting.
I think most Americans support a woman's right to choose. Those answers are somewhat sensitive to poll wording, so I'm sure if you polled Americans on infanticide they would be against it.
agip wrote:
ok so we're arguing that even though a lefty can't get through the D primary, he or she could win the general.
ok.
I didn't see anyone argue that a lefty can't get through the D primary.
Maybe one can get through this time.
2 of the top 3 current contenders are pretty left.
Bernie had a clear path last time and couldn't get it. Now a lot of people like me are considering the more progressive candidate over the more established candidate.
There is a Trump backlash that can go in any direction.
People that that if an extremists like him can win, anything goes.
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
Why did you have to manipulate what people wrote? You made it like I wrote what agip had written. Why do that if you are serious about a discussion? And is infanticide not radical?
That was a mistake and I apologize. I hate bulk copying entire posts so I try to only keep the relevant parts and delete everything else. I messed up the formatting.
I think most Americans support a woman's right to choose. Those answers are somewhat sensitive to poll wording, so I'm sure if you polled Americans on infanticide they would be against it.
Fair enough.
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
Those answers are somewhat sensitive to poll wording
Americans may not have an opinion on tariffs but they wouldn't like import taxes.
Illegal immigrants are worse than undocumented workers.
Raising your taxes to pay for someone else's school is bad.
Raising taxes on the wealthy to pay for your child's school is good.
Socialized medicine - bad.
Medicare - good.
Gotta love Trump’s strategy of pretending nothing is wrong, hope he keeps it up.
L L wrote:
Often wrong but never in doubt wrote:
Those answers are somewhat sensitive to poll wording
Americans may not have an opinion on tariffs but they wouldn't like import taxes.
Illegal immigrants are worse than undocumented workers.
Raising your taxes to pay for someone else's school is bad.
Raising taxes on the wealthy to pay for your child's school is good.
Socialized medicine - bad.
Medicare - good.
the classic is that polling finds a big gap, depending on if you ask about the "affordable care act" or "Obamacare. "
ACA is popular
Obamacare is something like 20 points less popular.
Polling on policy is always suspect - wording affects the answers so much, yes.
(the interesting footnote: many assume all the opposition to the ACA is from R. That's not the case. A large amount of lefties are against the ACA...because it doesn't go far enough to provide health care. So the opposition to the ACA doesn't mean the people want less government in the health care business)
Speaking of healthcare, what is the Trump/Republican plan right now?
I know they have no plans to actually do anything - ever.
But what are their plans for campaigning on it?
Vote for us again and we will actually do something in the next term?
L L wrote:
Speaking of healthcare, what is the Trump/Republican plan right now?
I know they have no plans to actually do anything - ever.
But what are their plans for campaigning on it?
Vote for us again and we will actually do something in the next term?
Obviously there is no R plan, other than vague 'market based solutions.' the basic R plan is to allow garbage, low quality health insurance plans, which are outlawed by the ACA, but would be cheaper than ACA plans. So the Rs think they will fool people into thinking they have reduced the cost of health care. Until the people try to use the health insurance and find out how bad it is.
Classic example of R voters literally not believing the truth about their party. the truth is that Rs want to take health care away from people. But you can't just tell the R voters that, because literally they will not believe you.
gawd the R party is a nightmare.
If they can deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions then premiums will be even lower.
Then factor in those that drop their coverage, say they have $0 premiums and the average premiums go down even more.
L L wrote:
If they can deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions then premiums will be even lower.
Then factor in those that drop their coverage, say they have $0 premiums and the average premiums go down even more.
The GOP health plan can also allow co-pays where the insured pays 100% of the cost of care. The insurance payments sole purpose would be to pay the salaries of insurance companies to manage payment for healthcare--including seizure of assets and home foreclosure if you do not pay up.
Trump absolutely hoses his rally fans. The capacity for his event tonight is 20,000, but his campaign has supposedly accepted 100,000 reservations. This results in people needing to wait in long lines and many not getting in. It will also cause unnecessary additional parking and traffic problems. This is all done just because Trump wants to claim there are gazillion people outside that couldn't get in. For the convenience of everyone involved, the reservations in this case should be limited to 25-30K.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Trump absolutely hoses his rally fans. The capacity for his event tonight is 20,000, but his campaign has supposedly accepted 100,000 reservations. This results in people needing to wait in long lines and many not getting in. It will also cause unnecessary additional parking and traffic problems. This is all done just because Trump wants to claim there are gazillion people outside that couldn't get in. For the convenience of everyone involved, the reservations in this case should be limited to 25-30K.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-supporters-start-lining-up-for-campaign-kick-off-more-than-40-hours-before-event
It would be like him to try to push that nightclub strategy. Remember, this is all primarily for his ego and second to con the toothless. Even the ones standing outside for hours and never make it in will buy a $30 M@GA hat made in China.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Trump absolutely hoses his rally fans. The capacity for his event tonight is 20,000, but his campaign has supposedly accepted 100,000 reservations. This results in people needing to wait in long lines and many not getting in. It will also cause unnecessary additional parking and traffic problems. This is all done just because Trump wants to claim there are gazillion people outside that couldn't get in. For the convenience of everyone involved, the reservations in this case should be limited to 25-30K.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-supporters-start-lining-up-for-campaign-kick-off-more-than-40-hours-before-event
Zzzzzz.... wake me up when a dem candidate rally sells out a high school gym.
Ciro wrote:
https://news.yahoo.com/harvard-rescinds-offer-to-parkland-kyle-kashuv-racist-slurs-191409135.html
At least he got his trip to the White House.
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these
Red Bull (who sponsors Mondo) calls Mondo the pole vaulting Usain Bolt. Is that a fair comparison?