Good Grief.
Reporter: Do you support these quotes? [Hitler quotes attributed to Trump]
Trumpette: Yes
Reporter: These are actually quotes from Hilter.
Trumpette: I don't support Hilter.
Reporter: But if Trump did say them, would you support him?
Trumpette: Hell yeah.
agip wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
. Trump is not an honorable person, but the Russia thing was largely more of a Democratic act of political shenanigans with inside help from some in the FBI and DOJ.
Igy
Igy come on. You read the newspaper. You know the Russians actively campaigned for Trump, the Trump campaign knew the Russians were campaigning for them, the Trump campaign welcomed Russia's help and the GOP wouldn't let Obama send out a warning to the nation. This is all fact, and it has nothing to do with 'democratic shenanigans.'
You also know that the FBI actively helped elect Trump by sending out a letter re-opening the email investigation weeks before the election.
There was zero help from the FBI and DOJ for Hillary Clinton. (as far as we know) There was massive help from the FBI for Donald J. Trump.
These are all cold facts and not subject to debate.
agip,
In my view it was pretty clear there were people in the FBI and DOJ protecting Hillary Clinton, and once Trump won there was a Russia Collusion spin. Please keep in mind the Obama Administration and the Clinton State Department muffed the relationship with Russia. Obama was exposed as a big talker but had little backbone, but was still foolish enough to mess with Ukraine (increasing Russian paranoia). So naturally after sanctions the Russians would prefer Trump and a more cordial relationship (two countries that could destroy life as we know it). But everything the Russians did was more stirring a pot to sow dissent than to elect. That is my view in a short paragraph. Really about all I have to say.
Igy
Nicely done wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
I haven’t been on here in awhile. Saw this post. Generally agree with agip on the above. Except I disagree with corporate tax cut, when AMZN pays nothing and in fact gets a refund something is amiss. Besides the country has serious deficit issues and we need more not less revenue.
I would like to see an end to the Korean War and a de-escalation of American military entanglements. He has done a better job in this area than Obama. Post World War II alliances are worn and tattered. So would like to see more done in this area. I feel Bolton is just another war monger; had enough of his ilk.
I feel we have been poorly served by a majority of present day politicians. Trump is not an honorable person, but the Russia thing was largely more of a Democratic act of political shenanigans with inside help from some in the FBI and DOJ. Politicians seem unable to tackle the pressing problems of entitlement spending, military expenditures, and general lack of fiscal discipline. So in that sense Trump is more of the same.
Igy
You should post more.
Thank you. Seems like most of the dialogue is two views talking past one another.
Sally Vix wrote:
I am asking all the Dems/Libs on here - have you EVER defended Trump for any reason? You have been trashing him non-stop for 2-plus years buy have you EVER decided that what the left and the media is doing is out of bounds. I have NEVER heard one person defend Trump or the Trump family.
I have defended Barron. I feel sorry for him and Melania.
SOUND THE TRUMPETTES!!!
ALARM. ALARM. ALARM.
Donald Trump Jr sounds the alarm over anemic fundraising for his daddy's re-election campaign
Don Jr has warned donors that they only raised around $30 million in the last quarter, and pointed out that that number fell far short of the $45 million Obama raised in the second quarter of 2011 for his 2012 re-election bid.
PLEASE SEND MONEY NOW!
TRUMP IS BROKE.
SELF-FUNDED CAMPAIGN . . . another lie
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/05/trump-2020-fund-raising-don-jr
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip wrote:
Igy come on. You read the newspaper. You know the Russians actively campaigned for Trump, the Trump campaign knew the Russians were campaigning for them, the Trump campaign welcomed Russia's help and the GOP wouldn't let Obama send out a warning to the nation. This is all fact, and it has nothing to do with 'democratic shenanigans.'
You also know that the FBI actively helped elect Trump by sending out a letter re-opening the email investigation weeks before the election.
There was zero help from the FBI and DOJ for Hillary Clinton. (as far as we know) There was massive help from the FBI for Donald J. Trump.
These are all cold facts and not subject to debate.
agip,
In my view it was pretty clear there were people in the FBI and DOJ protecting Hillary Clinton, and once Trump won there was a Russia Collusion spin. Please keep in mind the Obama Administration and the Clinton State Department muffed the relationship with Russia. Obama was exposed as a big talker but had little backbone, but was still foolish enough to mess with Ukraine (increasing Russian paranoia). So naturally after sanctions the Russians would prefer Trump and a more cordial relationship (two countries that could destroy life as we know it). But everything the Russians did was more stirring a pot to sow dissent than to elect. That is my view in a short paragraph. Really about all I have to say.
Igy
there is zero. zero, zero evidnce that anyone in the DOJ or FBI 'helped' HRC. Anything you think in that direction has been given to you by right wing propaganda. Zero evidence. So your view is just faith and osmosis rather than anything real. I'd advise giving up that view unless evidence to the contrary comes forth.
But on the other hand we have hard evidence that the FBI helped Trump win. So I'm going with that.
As for WHY Russia helped elect trump...lots of reasons. The main one is that they wanted this to happen. They wanted a corrupt, stupid, inexperienced, divisive criminal in charge of the USA. They knew this would happen - utter political dysfunction because of him.
The russians sponsor populists like him all over the west, and always have. They want disruption so the west is weakened. You and all the other trumpers are being used by the russians to accompish their geopolitical goals.
Fat hurts wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
I am asking all the Dems/Libs on here - have you EVER defended Trump for any reason? You have been trashing him non-stop for 2-plus years buy have you EVER decided that what the left and the media is doing is out of bounds. I have NEVER heard one person defend Trump or the Trump family.
I have defended Barron. I feel sorry for him and Melania.
melania is a birther. No credit.
agip wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip,
In my view it was pretty clear there were people in the FBI and DOJ protecting Hillary Clinton, and once Trump won there was a Russia Collusion spin. Please keep in mind the Obama Administration and the Clinton State Department muffed the relationship with Russia. Obama was exposed as a big talker but had little backbone, but was still foolish enough to mess with Ukraine (increasing Russian paranoia). So naturally after sanctions the Russians would prefer Trump and a more cordial relationship (two countries that could destroy life as we know it). But everything the Russians did was more stirring a pot to sow dissent than to elect. That is my view in a short paragraph. Really about all I have to say.
Igy
there is zero. zero, zero evidnce that anyone in the DOJ or FBI 'helped' HRC. Anything you think in that direction has been given to you by right wing propaganda. Zero evidence. So your view is just faith and osmosis rather than anything real. I'd advise giving up that view unless evidence to the contrary comes forth.
But on the other hand we have hard evidence that the FBI helped Trump win. So I'm going with that.
As for WHY Russia helped elect trump...lots of reasons. The main one is that they wanted this to happen. They wanted a corrupt, stupid, inexperienced, divisive criminal in charge of the USA. They knew this would happen - utter political dysfunction because of him.
The russians sponsor populists like him all over the west, and always have. They want disruption so the west is weakened. You and all the other trumpers are being used by the russians to accompish their geopolitical goals.
I suppose the one exception is how Comey said no prosecutor would prosecute HRC for her email errors. Which is true, no prosecutor would have prosecuted her for them. But depending on what the world 'help' means, that was some kind of 'help' to HRC. But following law and precedent isn't really a help....it's just doing what's right.
agip,
OK, yet Page, Strzok, Ohr and McCabe retired, fired, or were re-assigned. All intimately involved in the Hillary email or Trump Collision investigation. Nellie Ohr, Bruce’s wife was involved in promoting the Steele dossier. If there is a “come on,” I think you own it.
Igy
Fat hurts wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
I am asking all the Dems/Libs on here - have you EVER defended Trump for any reason? You have been trashing him non-stop for 2-plus years buy have you EVER decided that what the left and the media is doing is out of bounds. I have NEVER heard one person defend Trump or the Trump family.
I have defended Barron. I feel sorry for him and Melania.
Melania is a phony. She worked illegally under a tourist visa, and repeatedly lied about her legal status to the immigration officers. Her husband is "denaturalizing" many people for doing the exact same thing Melania did, while she was allowed to sponsor her parents' citizenship.
I feel sorry for Barron, for having such horrible people as parents.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Igy
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
. . .
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip,
OK, yet Page, Strzok, Ohr and McCabe retired, fired, or were re-assigned. All intimately involved in the Hillary email or Trump Collision investigation. Nellie Ohr, Bruce’s wife was involved in promoting the Steele dossier. If there is a “come on,” I think you own it.
Igy
it's correct that the Trump administration has attempted to purge the FBI of Trump critics. That shows what Trump wants to do to the government. It's reprehensible.
It is also true that nothing, nothing nothing has been established to have been done by the DOJ to favor the HRC candidacy. That is the big fact, and all the right wing accusations are just partisan flame throwing. The right wingers want to divert attention from the Trump felonies and misdemeanors so they are getting people like you to believe the FBI and DOJ were corrupt. The right wingers continue to be conned by Trump. They never learn.
The exception is McCabe - apparently he made some kind of misrepresentation about a media leak about the clinton foundation.
That said, the FBI inspector general is coming out with a report very soon on all this. Not that the right wingers will ever believe any facts, but that will establish a baseline for the reality based population to use. Right wingers...they will believe what trump tells them.
agip,
Purge the FBI. Rosenstein was in charge. I am sure that is what you believe. OK. You are not alone. But that ignores:1) Nellie Ohr and Bruce Ohr connection to the Steele Dossier, 2) False pretenses of the FISA warrant, 3) The Page/Strzok “insurance policy,” 4) Lynch and Bill Clinton tarmac meeting, 5) Comey leaking and lack of institutional control.
As I stated earlier, parties assumed Hillary would be President. When that did not pan out, this nonsense was hatched. I don’t believe itvwas an attempted coup, but do believe it was driven by a belief “that we know better than the sorry WalMart people that elected Trump.” The same type of sentiment I get when I read this thread.
Igy
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip,
Purge the FBI. Rosenstein was in charge. I am sure that is what you believe. OK. You are not alone. But that ignores:1) Nellie Ohr and Bruce Ohr connection to the Steele Dossier, 2) False pretenses of the FISA warrant, 3) The Page/Strzok “insurance policy,” 4) Lynch and Bill Clinton tarmac meeting, 5) Comey leaking and lack of institutional control.
As I stated earlier, parties assumed Hillary would be President. When that did not pan out, this nonsense was hatched. I don’t believe itvwas an attempted coup, but do believe it was driven by a belief “that we know better than the sorry WalMart people that elected Trump.” The same type of sentiment I get when I read this thread.
Igy
Amazing that people just think the FBI came up with this idea Trump colluded with Russians out of nowhere.
Let's just say for sure that he didn't. Then we still have hard evidence that Russia disseminated information designed to stir up his base specifically and undermine Hillary Clinton. We know DNC servers were hacked by Russians. Now it turns out Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort is in jail for conspiracy against the US. Jared Kushner and Don Jr met with a Russians in Trump Tower (for, let's presume, unknown reasons). Then there's the whole Trump Tower plans in Moscow. And honestly this list just goes on and fvcking on for a long time idk how far you want me to go.
If Trump didn't collude with the Russians, he literally had every other relationship with them that you could possibly have had, and it seems like maybe that would have been grounds for an investigation seeing as how Russia is trying to undermine our democracy
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip,
Purge the FBI. Rosenstein was in charge. I am sure that is what you believe. OK. You are not alone. But that ignores:1) Nellie Ohr and Bruce Ohr connection to the Steele Dossier, 2) False pretenses of the FISA warrant, 3) The Page/Strzok “insurance policy,” 4) Lynch and Bill Clinton tarmac meeting, 5) Comey leaking and lack of institutional control.
As I stated earlier, parties assumed Hillary would be President. When that did not pan out, this nonsense was hatched. I don’t believe itvwas an attempted coup, but do believe it was driven by a belief “that we know better than the sorry WalMart people that elected Trump.” The same type of sentiment I get when I read this thread.
Igy
come back to me with some proof of wrongdoing and I'll believe it. Otherwise, it's just sean hannity style right wing shock jockery.
you have faith in the corruption of the FBI but you have zero proof.
Racket wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip,
Purge the FBI. Rosenstein was in charge. I am sure that is what you believe. OK. You are not alone. But that ignores:1) Nellie Ohr and Bruce Ohr connection to the Steele Dossier, 2) False pretenses of the FISA warrant, 3) The Page/Strzok “insurance policy,” 4) Lynch and Bill Clinton tarmac meeting, 5) Comey leaking and lack of institutional control.
As I stated earlier, parties assumed Hillary would be President. When that did not pan out, this nonsense was hatched. I don’t believe itvwas an attempted coup, but do believe it was driven by a belief “that we know better than the sorry WalMart people that elected Trump.” The same type of sentiment I get when I read this thread.
Igy
Amazing that people just think the FBI came up with this idea Trump colluded with Russians out of nowhere.
Let's just say for sure that he didn't. Then we still have hard evidence that Russia disseminated information designed to stir up his base specifically and undermine Hillary Clinton. We know DNC servers were hacked by Russians. Now it turns out Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort is in jail for conspiracy against the US. Jared Kushner and Don Jr met with a Russians in Trump Tower (for, let's presume, unknown reasons). Then there's the whole Trump Tower plans in Moscow. And honestly this list just goes on and fvcking on for a long time idk how far you want me to go.
If Trump didn't collude with the Russians, he literally had every other relationship with them that you could possibly have had, and it seems like maybe that would have been grounds for an investigation seeing as how Russia is trying to undermine our democracy
Yet Mueller came up with nothing to prosecute. So your suppositions are nothing but suppositions. On the other hand, five FBI employees have been fired, re-assigned or retired. Every Trump campaign official facing criminal charges were unrelated to the suspected Russian collusion.
agip wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip,
Purge the FBI. Rosenstein was in charge. I am sure that is what you believe. OK. You are not alone. But that ignores:1) Nellie Ohr and Bruce Ohr connection to the Steele Dossier, 2) False pretenses of the FISA warrant, 3) The Page/Strzok “insurance policy,” 4) Lynch and Bill Clinton tarmac meeting, 5) Comey leaking and lack of institutional control.
As I stated earlier, parties assumed Hillary would be President. When that did not pan out, this nonsense was hatched. I don’t believe itvwas an attempted coup, but do believe it was driven by a belief “that we know better than the sorry WalMart people that elected Trump.” The same type of sentiment I get when I read this thread.
Igy
come back to me with some proof of wrongdoing and I'll believe it. Otherwise, it's just sean hannity style right wing shock jockery.
you have faith in the corruption of the FBI but you have zero proof.
I have faith that four people resigned, retired or were fired for the right reason. Same faith that you express in the institution for whom they were employed. You just want it your way.
LOOK SQUIRREL! wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Igy
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
. . .
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
LOOK SQUIRREL!
Childish post.
Not Born in the USA wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I have defended Barron. I feel sorry for him and Melania.
Melania is a phony. She worked illegally under a tourist visa, and repeatedly lied about her legal status to the immigration officers. Her husband is "denaturalizing" many people for doing the exact same thing Melania did, while she was allowed to sponsor her parents' citizenship.
I feel sorry for Barron, for having such horrible people as parents.
I still feel sorry for Melania. She seems almost as unhappy as Tiny does.
Sally Vix wrote:
I am asking all the Dems/Libs on here - have you EVER defended Trump for any reason? You have been trashing him non-stop for 2-plus years buy have you EVER decided that what the left and the media is doing is out of bounds. I have NEVER heard one person defend Trump or the Trump family.
Well, I've never checked the Democratic box for any office in any election, yet I suppose some might say that (some of) my positions are liberal. With that caveat:
*The corporate tax rate needed to be lowered--something that most economists, left and right, had agreed on.
*The U.S. needed/needs to leave its endless wars.
*The jobs expansion that BHO presided over for 6+ years has been continued--a neat feat.
*China needed to be called out, loudly, for its intellectual theft.
We can discuss whether these things have been achieved, or achieved in the best way, but at least they were things that Trump/his administration had on their to-do list.
I've said this before, as have others: If you'd give the Trump administration an A or an F, you need to pay more attention.