The GOAT of Distance Running IS NOT Kenenisa Bekele or Haile Gebresallaise

Mr. Obvious wrote:

said88 wrote:

The other point: Aouita has not come within 7 seconds of the 10000m WR, but 12 seconds - in his debut! But it should be added that he run something like half of the race close to lane 2 - something like 40 meters extra. He definitely could have come very close to the WR - again, in his debut!

why would he run such a poor strategic race?

He just run in the pack.

Most of Aouita's fast races where tactically really not very wise. something similar can be said about Sebastian Coe.

Totally different from almost all of the record attempts from the likes of Morceli, Gebrselassie, El Guerrouj...

It seems that just from the early 1990s on athletes have learned that less distance run and more even pace will result in better times.

Some of the pacemaking in WR attempts in the 80s was atrocious

I grew up watching Aouita. His range from 800m-10,000m remains unmatched and I think that's why his name comes up in conversations like this 30 years after his prime years.

The 10,000m record was soft back then. Off 13 just under he should have run 27 flat.

Bekele range from 1500m to marathon more impressive.

He only won 800m bronze due to poor pacing of opposition letting him pick up pieces.

The 1500m was the blue riband event and he ducked it in 84

Antonio Cabral wrote:

Now if you say he was a grest runner, we agree. Aouita, he spoiled his changes when he pretended to run the 800m, the 1500m and the 5000m in the Seul Olimpics and finished witn a brinze medal when he could have one or 2 gold, and resumed his career after that.

Agree

How did he pretend to run those events. He intended on running them; however, aggravated his already injuried hamstring. He would have won 2 of the 3 I agree but to say he pretended is inaccurate when that injury more or less ended his career.

ukathleticcoach wrote:

The 10,000m record was soft back then. Off 13 just under he should have run 27 flat.

Bekele range from 1500m to marathon more impressive.

He only won 800m bronze due to poor pacing of opposition letting him pick up pieces.

The 1500m was the blue riband event and he ducked it in 84

You are such a shill for the Brits.

Aouita was hurt and ran hard down the stretch to EARN the bronze in the 800m - fighting off Elliot in the process (maybe you're bitter that he kept a Brit from getting a medal?). Bekele and Geb wouldn't have had a prayer of hitting the podium in an OG 800m and your dear Coe never did anything of note over the mile distance. Stop being so freaking biased.

ukathleticcoach wrote:

(1) The 10,000m record was soft back then. Off 13 just under he should have run 27 flat.

(2) Bekele range from 1500m to marathon more impressive.

(3) He only won 800m bronze due to poor pacing of opposition letting him pick up pieces.

(4) The 1500m was the blue riband event and he ducked it in 84

(1) Yeah. The 1500m WR holder, the guy who before and after has beaten many of the world best over 800m run his debut over 10000m. In this debut he became the 6th fastest ever over the distance while running wide half of the race. Has beaten the Olympic Champ and the WR holder, the next two European Champs, the fastest of the year. Was badly spiked early in the race (repordedly by Cova) and finished the race with a shoe full of blood. If someone likes him or not, but I think this deserves some sort of respect.

Yet, all the selfmadecoach has to say: "He should have run 27 flat"

For sure, a sub 1:44 800m-runner SHOULD have bettered the 10000m WR by 13 seconds. Good to hear this from a real coach.

(he probably COULD have done this, but because of injuries and his plans for Seoul (800m/1500m double) he didn't had another attempt)

(2) for sure debatable - also I would disagree

(3) The 5000m WR holder runs the 800m at the Olympics. Yet he was feared by all the specialists and so the race was started super fast to avoid his finishing qualities - which means he has to run very wide (many more extra meters than the winner Paul Ereng). He was injured (have you just seen his interview with the BBC before the race which is to find in YouTube?). He was hindered by Peter Elliott 50m before the finish. But he still won a bronze medal.

I think this also deserves some respect. But what has our coach to say? "won bronze just because of poor pacing of the opposition"

(4) So, in order to win the first Gold for your country ever (in fact it became El Moutawakel) to choose the event where someone thinks he has the best chances to excel someone deserves a comment like "he ducked..." (1500m and 5000m were not possible both).

Well, it really seems the selfmadecoach is a very objective and intelligent observer of distance running. But wait - maybe he just is really stupid?

Spot on. The UK "Coach" is a turd that talks out of his a$$.

Post Of The Day!

Vipam wrote:

I have checked my math skills and the times are not as important considering he ran in the early to late 80's. Almost 30 years before Haile and over 30 years to my favorite athlete Kenenisa Bekele. What math do you have to check when someone WINS 115 out of 119 of their races. Over legendary athletes in their speciality like Joaquim Cruz, Steve Cram, Steve COe, John Ngugi, Alberto Cova etc.

Not sure who 'Steve Coe' is? or how good he was?, but Aouita never beat that other famous Coe, Sebastian. They never met in a race.

He also lost to Cram more than he beat him, up to 1988, when they both faded. Certainly Aouita's run in Nice was marginally superior than Cram's, in terms of the time potential possible through analysis of their respective races, but the name of the game is winning.

Aouita beat Cruz over 800m when Cruz was on the rise again after several seasons out. I don't think he would have beaten Cruz over 800m in 84 or 85.

Having said this, Aouita is a unique runner in terms of his range from 800m to 10000m. I don't believe anyone in the modern era has ranked No. 1 at 800m and 10000m during their career. And he is certainly in the discussion fro GOAT of middle & distance running.

My friend Said88 is correct in that Aouita's biggest asset, range, was also probably the greatest obstacle in cementing his place as the GOAT. He simply spread his talent and energy too thinly.

I would add that although I don't think Aouita would have beaten Cruz in 84 form, I think he would probably have won the 800 in 88, against the athletes who were there in their current form, had he not picked up and ran with that injury. And he certainly would have beaten Rono in the 1500 without the injury, especially as the only man who could have caused him problems, Cram, was also having his own injury issues.

Aouita had already beaten Cruz in Europe over 800m.

The difference between Aouita's times over 1500 - 5000m and those of EL G, is simply that the latter had EPO.

Biased Much wrote:

and your dear Coe never did anything of note over the mile distance. Stop being so freaking biased.

Are you taking the p**s?

Nothing of note over the mile?

No, he only broke the mile WR (x3) more times than any other athlete since WW2. More times than Cram, Ryun, Snell, El G, Morceli,...

Throw in a couple of Olympic golds over the metric mile, again, more than any of those above, and we really have a pitiful record over the distance!

I thought this forum was for those who appreciated the sport and at least had a passing knowledge of its history?

Deanouk wrote:

Biased Much wrote:

and your dear Coe never did anything of note over the mile distance. Stop being so freaking biased.

Are you taking the p**s?

Nothing of note over the mile?

No, he only broke the mile WR (x3) more times than any other athlete since WW2. More times than Cram, Ryun, Snell, El G, Morceli,...

Throw in a couple of Olympic golds over the metric mile, again, more than any of those above, and we really have a pitiful record over the distance!

I thought this forum was for those who appreciated the sport and at least had a passing knowledge of its history?

"Over" - as in longer than the mile distance, not as you are taking it to mean that Coe never did anything of note at the mile distance. The former is obviously true and nobody would ever say the latter, so calm down.

The wording wasn't perfect, but you could've seen the point that was being made since the conversation was about runners with incredible range - Coe, great as he was on so many levels is not even remotely a part of that conversation. That's the point that was being made. Got it?

Agree completely with this as well as your post immediately following this one.

One small correction - Aouita did have one more excellent year in '89, where he started things off with a nice indoor circuit in the U.S. (undefeated, including a great race against Scott at 3k in the Meadowlands, was #2 world-ranked in the 1500m to Bile with a 3:30.xx and most impressively, finally got his white whale - Rono's 3000m WR after coming agonizingly close to breaking it a number of times over the previous 5 years or so.

I understand the point you're making though, as injuries pretty much ended things for Said after the '89 season, even if he had a few isolated performances of note over the next 2-3 years.