Baby boomers - Northwestern U is now 70k / year...what do you have to say for yourselves?

alwayss be closing wrote:

Should young people just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps? Work a summer job to pay tuition? Nevermind that Northwestern was $3500/year in 1970, the same rules apply, right?

And thanks for the social security $ you pay me out of working your summer job. Pays for my casino bus trips.

alwayss be closing wrote:

Dilllll wrote:

Better yet, move to Germany, Sweden, France, Norway, Finland, or Slovenia. You can go to college for free there. Or basically move to any first world industrialized nation as secondary education will be significantly cheaper there. The United States indisputably leads the world in the cost of education and the cost of health care. For some reason, supply and demand have resulted in systems that are far more expensive and far less effective than non-free market systems. Who would have thought?

Boomers...thoughts?

It was the same bullshit in 1970. It's an illusion, a fairy tale to keep you going.

I know someone with 2 science degrees that was walking dogs for a living.

runalongnow wrote:

No hypocrisy here. I worked my way through school at a rather inexpensive state school (which still exist, by the way) and started on a decent career with zero debt. It wasn't that difficult to pull off and plenty of students are doing it today. Maybe it takes another year or two, but your future isn't clouded by massive debt.

Nobody makes people sign up for student loans or loans for houses that they will never be able to afford.

Zero sympathy here, and when Bernie ran on a platform of "free college for all," I had to wonder about the man's sanity.

So much to say here. Your holier-than-thou attitude stinks and is typical of baby boomer scum. Unlike you, I actually want to build a world that's easier and better for my children's generation. You seem to be resigned and in a sick sense, delighted, that things are harder for us than they are for you. If I were a boomer, I'd be totally ashamed at my generation and the mess you left behind.

Of course nobody "makes" people sign up for student loans, but the vast majority of 18 year olds do not have the savvy or world experience to understand the magnitude of taking out 6 figure loans. They listen to their parents, teachers and counselors, all of which (likely) encourage or cosign their debt load. You cannot put the burden of this on a child who doesn't fully grasp the world of financial decisions.

Of course, free college is a birthright in Europe. A place that actually sees education as an investment in society, not a ponzi scheme used to extract wealth from young people and make them debt slaves.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 200k per year combined income is not much by today's standards. You are NOT even close to living the American dream. For that you need to be earning 600+k per year. At least if you live on the North shore of Chicago where Northwestern is located.

head hunter guy wrote:

system of lies wrote:

I refer you to my post above. My brother worked his a$$ off, and made less than $50,000 per year. Six figures is a joke. Give an example where you state the state of location, company, and job title where this six-figure combination is happening.

Minnesota, Target, Software Engineer.

I got him just over $100k, graduated in 2013.

Thank you for providing a foil / counterexample to my brother's experience. Perhaps the industry of accounting & finance is just a bend-over-and-take-it industry, and software engineering is where it's at.

I'm not a software guy myself. Do you know which programming languages your guy specialized in, so that I or someone else reading could do the same?

system of lies wrote:

head hunter guy wrote:

Minnesota, Target, Software Engineer.

I got him just over $100k, graduated in 2013.

Thank you for providing a foil / counterexample to my brother's experience. Perhaps the industry of accounting & finance is just a bend-over-and-take-it industry, and software engineering is where it's at.

I'm not a software guy myself. Do you know which programming languages your guy specialized in, so that I or someone else reading could do the same?

He was Java with some open source as well (Python). But the reason why companies will pay that isn't the language, it's the fundamentals he had of know Object Oriented Design that's taught in a 4 year Comp Sci program. So going to some 10 week bootcamp to learn Ruby on Rails isn't going to get you paid. At least not right away.

I live in Europe now, and you are right....they do see it differently over here. My wife had no student loans upon graduation, whereas I had loans that were almost two times my annual salary level from my first job after graduation. It sucked. It took a long time to kill that debt. My college (Loyola Chicago) has tripled in cost since I graduated. Tough to afford now and it isn't even a top tier university.

Gotta keep out the riff raff.

Look, places that charge that much do so for social engineering purposes. Not unlike the prestigious elementary schools or high schools, (seriously how "prestigious" can elementary school be??)

You charge high tuition so parents know that their little darling will only be associating with, dating (and screwing) other little darlings from similar financial backgrounds.

Lots of girls go to school looking for that Mrs. degree, and best to find one at Northwestern, Stanford, or Vanderbilt than some state school. It's all about breeding and social climbing and/or treading water in your own social class.

system of lies wrote:

Don't you DARE tell me that you can still do fine with a non-Ivy degree. Don't you DARE tell me that the opportunities are the same for a non-Ivy degree. If you did well at all with a non-Ivy degree in the 2000's, I immediately want to know your state, type of work, and firm, as I believe it's specific to said combination.

Your post is so irrational. Do you think the unemployment rate for non-Ivy graduates is 100% vs 0% for Ivy graduates? Do you really think no one is hiring non-Ivy graduates?

If you want a job with a company that only hires from a specific school and you don't go to that school, then THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION AND THUS A PERSONAL ERROR. It does not mean that college is unaffordable. The average cost of college is under $10000.

If you didn't do your research and look carefully, that is you and your brother's fault. You don't even neec a degree at all to make lots of money. Learn a computer programming language and you can make some serious money straight out of high school. If you become very good at it, you could easily be making 6 figures straight out of highschool.

So, yes I'm DARING to tell you that in general, opportunities are largely the same no matter your school. You don't even need school. Tuition is not unaffordable.

There's a lot of crying on this thread. Life is tough and rarely fair. By and large, the world as a whole isn't there to help you out. People act in their own self interest, even the supposed altruistic ones.

There are, however, plenty of jobs. Your choice of education makes it easier to do some of those jobs. It also makes it harder to move into other careers. No one guarantees that you'll get to do exactly what you want. Plenty of us are doing something we find less than fulfilling.

The cost of some higher education is of proportion to the return you will get. That said, no one is forcing people to attend these schools. If you choose to attend the school then it's up to you to make the most of it. Take a little personal responsibility and quit your complaining.

nope wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 200k per year combined income is not much by today's standards. You are NOT even close to living the American dream. For that you need to be earning 600+k per year. At least if you live on the North shore of Chicago where Northwestern is located.

600K a year is 'living the american dream'? That pretty well sums up the unreal expectations of this generation.

- Not everyone is going to make 100K coming out of college. Hell, most won't even make 60K. But, that entry level job that is paying 45K is a starting point. Put in your time, make connections and either advance or move to a better job opportunity with better pay in a year or two. I bet if that guy's brother stayed at least one year with the bank, he had an easier time finding his next job.

- You may be just as qualified as the next guy, but they still may get the job if the company is partial to a particular university or someone in HR is an alumni to a particular school (not just Ivy, but could be small regional colleges) or the other applicant happens to know more people there. That is life and life is not always fair.

- Lastly, you don't need to live in a huge house or drive BMWs and Audi's to be living the american dream. Most are happy being able to provide for their families, put food on the table, and have enough left over to save (emergency fund, retirement, and a vacation or two a year). Nothing wrong with having more than that, but you clearly do not have a clear perspective on life if you think you need that to be happy.

This is coming from a 2005 grad who started out at 32K a year and worked his way up. Oh and I live in the Chicagoland area and feel I am doing 'fine' even though I don't make 600K a year.

A few things:

1. The cost of a college degree in the U.S. is absolutely ridiculous. However, NW could not charge so much unless they could get away with it (market demand). If you decide to go there, don't complain, if you complain, then don't go there.

2 Nothing against a summer job, but it is mostly symbolic, it is not going to put a dent in $70 a year bill. Even a full time job making $15 an hour would only put a dent in a $70 a year bill.

3. It would take nearly 20 years to recover the ROI from $70 a year NW degree versus a $20K a year state school. I've had employees from a state schools and an elite private schools working side-by-side making pretty much the same salary. The NW degree helps you get a job and perhaps becoming an executive when all other things are equal, but for the majority of your career, it does not mean as much as people think.

If you don't charge a lot you who will show up at your school? The Blacks, and nobody wants that.

alwayss be closing wrote:

sbeefyk1 wrote:

This is kind of funny. They'll take out $70k/yr in student loans and they'll have to wait 5-10 years before they work their way into a job that pays $70k/yr.

But in all seriousness, who cares. Congress will be forgiving ALL student loans while overhauling the financial aid system to keep this disaster from happening again. So might as well take out the loans while you can and get them forgiven.

There's too much research now proving that student loans are costing the economy 1%+/yr. When Trump hears this he will make the tough decision to forgive all current loans and overhaul the system.

Excuse me, this thread is about short-sighted boomers and their hypocrisy. Please do not deviate from the subject.

If you and other young'ns weren't so short sighted and were smart enough to avoid outrageous tuition fees, the costs at these schools would drop. I went to an affordable instate university, graduated with a bs in cis at the top of my degree program and now earn $150k. Consider the degree you choose and the school as being your first real world iq test. Good luck!

Almost no one, of the general population goes to an Ivy League school. Most Americans end up doing fine. Your brother's life might be more pleasant if he had an Ivy degree but he doesn't, so like nearly everyone else, he needs to figure out how to do fine anyway. But if he's convinced that can't happen without an Ivy degree there's a good chance it won't.

Dilllll wrote:

Billy Fap wrote:

Supply and demand, twinkletoes. Move to Russia or Syria if you don't like it.

Maybe helicopter mom and dad can arrange a special education for you.

Better yet, move to Germany, Sweden, France, Norway, Finland, or Slovenia. You can go to college for free there. Or basically move to any first world industrialized nation as secondary education will be significantly cheaper there. The United States indisputably leads the world in the cost of education and the cost of health care. For some reason, supply and demand have resulted in systems that are far more expensive and far less effective than non-free market systems. Who would have thought?

+1000000000

My post was quite rational. I said that opportunities were unequal for Ivy vs. non-Ivy graduates, and also proceeded to provide an example. That's pretty rational.

I never said that the unemployment rate for non-Ivy degrees was 100%, nor do I think that. In my example, my brother got a job while having non-Ivy degrees. HOWEVER, HIS JOB WAS FOR WAY LESS MONEY, WITH WAY MORE CERTIFICATION, WITH MORE EDUCATION, AND WITH WAY MORE SPECIFICATION THAT THE IVY-LEAGUERS in my example.

Clearly, either you didn't read all of my initial post, or you didn't understand it. Those companies that hired from only specific schools NEVER ADVERTISED SUCH, SO THERE WAS NO WAY THAT THIS COULD BE RESEARCHED. ON THE CONTRARY, THEY ADVERTISED THAT THEY DID HIRE FROM MY BROTHER'S SCHOOL, AND WENT OUT OF THE WAY TO PAY TO MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP WITH MY BROTHER'S SCHOOL'S CAREER OFFICE BEYOND OTHER COMPANIES IN ORDER TO ADVERTISE SAID FALSEHOOD. There was no miscalculation on my brother's part. If anything, he was well-calculated, in that he ended up with way less debt than me (I went to a non-Ivy private university, he went to state schools).

I'll give someone else the chance to attack more completely your assertion that the average cost of college is under $10,000, but for now will say this: Even assuming you meant $10,000/year, that's based on a fallacy. The colleges you would have to include in your calculations in order to achieve that average are not places where the degree is considered sufficient for numerous jobs. I challenge you to find a company who considers a 2- or 4-year community college degree to be sufficient for lines of work such as internal accounting and finance, electrical engineering, etc.

I do agree with you that you don't need a college degree in order to make a lot of money or an income at or above the American median. However, the number of jobs that fall into that category are far fewer than half the number of high school graduates, and dwindling every year.

I laugh at your suggestion that anyone could self-teach themselves programming today and make six figures straight out of high school. I refer you to head hunter's post above, where he said that the key to making said salary was what his college taught. Furthermore, no company will consider someone with only a high school degree properly vetted in the area of work ethic, which is part of what the desireability of a degree is all about. Provide an example of someone making six figures out of high school while doing nothing more than self-teaching programming. Make sure it's an example where someone did so by sheer determination, and not by being a one-in-ten-million+ prodigy, which makes this conversation about hard work a moot point.