Rank the best milers of all time...

If it's old timers you want how about Edwin Flack of Australia who won Gold in the 1500 and Gold in the 800 at the 1896 Olympics. He also competed in Tennis singles and doubles. He finished 3rd in doubles.

Arne Andersson and Gunder Haag of Sweden were great runners, however this thread is really about the best miler of all time because there were so many great runners. It's difficult to even pick the top five and any of those guys could be considered #1. The Hungarians had a civil war which stopped them from getting someone on this list. They might have done a lot better if they had their coach Mihaly Igloi to coach them for their entire career.

Roger Bannister is a threat to be on this list because he trained so lightly before his record mile attempt. He was a medical doctor and also wound up retiring early.

1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Oly Gold, Silver / 4 x WC Gold, 1 Silver / 2 x WC Gold Indoors) ~ World Record Holder 1500/Mile/In/Out. Most Top 25 Performances. As Lord Coe himself stated, "El G is the only complete package we've seen over the mile, speed and strength." 5000m Olympic Gold, Indoor 3000m WC. Passes the eyeball test in that he would beat all previous Milers in history in any type of race.

2. Sebastian Coe

3. Kip Keino

4. Jim Ryun

5. Herb Elliott

Yours is without a doubt the best top five I have seen.

Let's go with that:

1. Hicham El Guerrouj WR in mile for 9 years now

2. Sebastian Coe 2 X Olympic Champ

3. Kip Keino African Pioneer

4. Jim Ryun Mainly for what might have been as he peaked at 21

5. Herb Elliott Never beaten over 1500/Mile and retired at 23

Perhaps the only thing bad about this list is we missed out on anyone before

1960. There were a lot of great milers from those eras.

Consider this: The mile record in 1900 was around 4:15; in 1923, Nurmi ran 4:10.4; by the end of the ’30s the record was down to 4:06.4; and by the end of the ’40s, it was at 4:01.6. Looked at in that context, breaking 4:00—first one man, then a parade of others—was just a step along the way in an inevitable march. The people who study this stuff argue about whether it’s a linear progression or a curved asymptotic progression. Tim Noakes suggests that it’s both—that “the linear part of the curve is hidden in our prehistory before the advent of the stopwatch.” I notice that the current record—Hicham El Guerrouj’s 3:43.13—has stood since July 1999. That’s the longest gap between mile records in nearly 100 years. Have we finally closed in on the limits of human performance?

But back to the ’50s. Noakes attributes the accelerating gains in performance to the adoption of better training methods after Zatopek showed the way with interval training in the early 1950s. Added factors that might have played a role: a post-war growth in the pool of runners; the psychological component we’ve talked about; and Benzedrine. How influential that last factor might have been is unknown, but of course there was no testing back then, amphetamines were definitely becoming more present in the culture and their possible benefits in athletics were known.

As for Landy, despite that amazing 3:57.9, his most glorious mile might have been one in which he ran 4:04.2. It was at the 1956 Australian national championships. Here’s how one of the players in the drama, the great Ron Clarke, told the tale in his autobiography:

“For two and a half laps the crowd watched enthralled. Robbie Morgan-Morris went through the first lap in 59 seconds followed closely by myself, Alec Henderson, John Plummer and the favourite [Landy]. At the half-mile Robbie was still there and the time was 2:02. I loped along behind him, anxious to finish at least among the first three runners and improve my best mile time. Soon after the third lap I took the lead and then on a bend occurred an incident that stunned everybody. … Alec came up on the inside of John. He evidently tried also to wedge his way through between me and the kerb, and in doing so accidentally clipped my heel. I lost balance and went sprawling on to the track while Alec staggered on to the verge of the arena, recovered and ran on. John had no other choice but to jump over me, his spikes lacerating my right arm as he did so. I was in such a daze that I felt no pain. Within seconds the whole field was jumping over me or running wide. Then John did a foolish, but typically thoughtful thing—he came back to say he was sorry and see if I was alright. The mile title, his bid for the world record, even the approaching Olympics… all were forgotten as the champion made his spontaneous gesture to the raw stripling floundering in the cinders.”

But that’s not the end of the story! As authors Peter Cochrane and Brian Hoepper wrote, “Even more amazing is that Landy did race on. He took off, caught the field in the final lap on the back straight, hauled in the front-runners and won in the remarkable time of 4:04.2.”

This was written 2010 and appears in Tracktalk.net

Tooo many marathons wrote:

Thank you for correcting me on that it is Roger (NOT JOHN) Bannister at #4.

My reason for selecting him is he broke what scientists thought was an impossible barrier. I think in the next year 300 people ran under 4 minutes!

not even close

6 May 54 Roger Bannister UK 3:59.4 m 3:58.8 m 7 Aug 54

21 Jun 54 John Landy Aus 3:57.9 m

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28 May 55 László Tábori Hun 3:59.0 m

28 May 55 Chris Chataway UK 3:59.8 m

28 May 55 Brian Hewson UK 3:59.8 m 3:58.9 m 3 Sep 58

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5 May 56 Jim Bailey Aus 3:58.6 m

1 Jun 56 Ronnie Delany Ire 3:59.0 m 3:57.5 m 6 Aug 58

1 Jun 56 Gunnar Nielsen Den 3:59.1 m

6 Aug 56 Derek Ibbotson UK 3:59.4 m 3:57.2 m 19 Jul 57

26 Aug 56 István Rózsavölgyi Hun 3:59.0 m

========= (10)

23 Mar 57 Merv Lincoln Aus 3:58.9 m 3:55.9 m 6 Aug 58

1 Jun 57 Don Bowden USA 3:58.7 m

19 Jul 57 Stanislav Jungwirth Cze 3:59.1 m

19 Jul 57 Ken Wood UK 3:59.3 m

19 Jul 57 Dan Waern Swe 3:59.3 m 3:58.5 m 4 Sep 57

7 Aug 57 Olavi Vuorisalo Fin 3:59.1 m

4 Sep 57 Roger Moens Bel 3:58.9 m

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25 Jan 58 Herb Elliott Aus 3:59.9 m 3:54.5 m 6 Aug 58

6 Aug 58 Murray Halberg NZ 3:57.5 m

6 Aug 58 Albie Thomas Aus 3:58.6 m 3:58.3 m 21 Mar 64

(20)

3 Sep 58 Zbigniew Orywal Pol 3:59.7 m

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28 May 59 Siegfried Valentin Ger 3:56.5 m

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23 Apr 60 Dyrol Burleson USA 3:58.6 m 3:55.6 m 7 Jun 63

28 May 60 Jim Beatty USA 3:58.0 m 3:55.5 m 7 Jun 63

23 Sep 60 Terry Sullivan Rho 3:59.8 m

23 Sep 60 Gordon Pirie UK 3:59.9 m

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27 Jan 62 Peter Snell NZ 3:54.4 m 3:54.03 17 Nov 64

27 Jan 62 Bruce Tulloh UK 3:59.3 m

25 Feb 62 Siegfried Herrmann Ger 3:59.9 mi 3:58.6 mi 21 Feb 65

28 Apr 62 Jim Grelle USA 3:59.9 m 3:55.4 m 15 Jun 65

(30)

26 May 62 Keith Forman USA 3:58.3 m

26 May 62 Cary Weisiger USA 3:59.3 m 3:56.6 m 7 Jun 63

23 Jun 62 Bill Dotson USA 3:59.0 m

18 Aug 62 Stan Taylor UK 3:58.01

18 Aug 62 Bob Seaman USA 3:58.07

18 Aug 62 Mike Berisford UK 3:59.24

21 Aug 62 Olavi Salonen Fin 3:59.1 m

3 Oct 62 Michel Jazy Fra 3:59.8 m 3:53.6 m 9 Jun 65

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15 Feb 63 John Davies NZ 3:58.8 m 3:56.80 3 Jul 65

Read more:

There were 3 American, an Australian and a New Zealander who held the 1500m WR between 1912 and 1955. There were ample opportunities for non Europeans to run 1500m.

And I'm sorry, but the mile was not the main event up to 2000! It may have been in the US Collegiate system, but everywhere else was running mainly 1500m. I think the last era where the Mile WR was considered as important as the 1500m was the early 80's.

Also, Walker's WR of 3:49.4 is equivalent to 3:32.4 for 1500m, which is actually inferior to Bayi's 1500m WR of 3:32.16.

I'm not sure about the windy conditions when Walker ran 3:32.4, and I'm not saying that wasn't the case, but Bayi's solo 3:32.16 was also worth a bit faster with some drafting.

I agree though, that Walker's overall record is better than Bayi's.

Great list. Can't really argue with it, and I feel the same re El G & Morceli. They have also made it (if they were on EPO) very difficult for any clean athlete that came after to get a WR at either the 1500 or Mile and enter into this conversation.

It's a bit of a Catch 22, for while the likes of Lagat, Kiprop and to a lesser extent, Makhloufi, have won titles and run fast times, they haven't set a WR between them, and for me, an athlete needs a WR to enter the conversation.

For that reason I wouldn't put Keino as high as 5. No WRs at 1500 or Mile.

1. walter george

2. walter george

3. walter george

4. walter george

5. walter george

The guy was basically a zero endurance tobacco smoking athlete who ran only in place for training and set the world record in the mile in the 19th century that stood for 30+ years. If that isn't blatant mutant mid d talent I don't know what is.

length wrote:

1. walter george

2. walter george

3. walter george

4. walter george

5. walter george

The guy was basically a zero endurance tobacco smoking athlete who ran only in place for training and set the world record in the mile in the 19th century that stood for 30+ years. If that isn't blatant mutant mid d talent I don't know what is.

Like Bannister, he was also a pharmacist and we should discredit them as they were openly doped to the gills using themselves as test dummies.

Well...that's not respect.

Yeah I stand corrected...the post you made was on Tracktalk.net and took place in 2010. I copied it to my computer and meant to post it. Thanks for putting it in for me!

Kiprop has to be in the top 5.

1 Olympic Gold

3 World Champs

#3 all time 1500

#24 all time mile

AXC wrote:

Kiprop has to be in the top 5.

1 Olympic Gold

3 World Champs

#3 all time 1500

#24 all time mile

Why!? He's nowhere near top 10, let alone top 5.

He is very inconsistent and has lost loads of races where he lost his bottle or couldn't be bothered.

His gold was won when he came 2nd to Ramzi and given retroactively. He has had 2 attempts to actually cross the line first since, and failed miserably in both.

World Champs are biannual now. Not the case for anyone competing prior to 91 and only athletes since 83 have had a chance to run one every 4 years.

Had they had World Champs every 2 years since the '30's, I'm sure there would be a host of other guys who would have won it 2, 3 or 4 times.

World Champs are not really helpful in comparing athletes from different eras. At the end of the list for criteria.

Kiprop hasn't broken any world records either, and there are 23 guys who have run faster over the mile!

Nowhere near top 5. Somewhere between 10 and 20.

Actually, I made a mistake on this list. Keino and Cram should be switched as I value major competition medals over WRs. Keino had 2 and Cram only had 1. I think the 1500m and mile world records being held by a likely EPO user further devalues WRs for my ranking purposes as no runner is likely to break them clean. Lagat, Kiprop, Makhloufi deserve some consideration as well although I believe both Lagat and Kiprop have doped at least some of their careers.

Deanouk, did you have a good New Year's? Now if you check the IAAF's website for the official standards the 1500m/mile gap is 17.4 at 3:36 pace. Currently the world record gap is 17.13 and I am willing to bet that the mile record will survive longer than the curent 1500m record. Historically 17.5s is a fair gap at low 3:29-32 pace, @ 3:26 pace a lower 17s addition is accurate. Coe's mile times vs Ovett's 1500m WRs at the same time were superior, usually sub 17s.

2000 may be an exaggeration but the mile really has disappeared from the circuit over the last 15ish years. The mile record always carried more weight in the media. Athlete's from the "colonies" might have run more 1500 races but if it was a non Olympic year they would peak for a good mile time. This was the trend up to the mid-1980s. I saw alot of fast mile races from El Guerrouj in the 1997-2001 period, now just like the Dodo.

Hi. New Year's was fine thanks, a bit quiet.

Happy New Year to you too.

I was unaware that the IAAF has published suggested gap times between 1500 and 1 mile. I'll take a look when I get the chance.

I was purely basing a comparison between Bayi's 1500 and Walker's mile on the 1.08 ratio I have seen used by a lot on here.

3:32.16 x 1.08 = 3:49.13

3:49.4 / 1.08 = 3:32.41

None of the conversions are set in stone, so it depends which one you use. I think we can both agree that a 3:32 and a 3:49 are pretty much identical in quality.

Yes, the Mile on the European circuit has definitely died a death since 2000. I agree. There seems to be 1 in Eugene, 1 in Oslo and another in the UK (Emsley Carr).

Look forward to conversing with you on here this year. :0)

Interesting multiplier, 1.08. My guess is that these guys can't run through 1500m en route to the mile at much more than 99% of max effort, hence the the current gap of 17.13s (if my memory serves me correctly El G & Ngeny went through 1500m @ 3:28 that day) and in the Coe vs Ovett period of the early 1980s a fair gap was probably 17.3-4s. Going into 1984, Ovett had the 1500m WR of 3:30.77 and Coe the mile WR of 3:47.7 (?) he would later run sub 3:30, still his mile time was superior to Ovett's (probably worth 3:30.3/4) added to his two 1500m golds makes him the superior athlete (as much as it pains me to say that) than Ovett. Though Ovett's massive winning streak should also put him on the list.

A more interesting thread would be "The Greatest all round middle distance runner." It's would be Coe vs Snell for the top spot followed by Ovett in third, Aouita in 4th, then Van Damme, Cram, Makh, Boit etc fighting for fifth.

What is all the talk about 17s? I doubt if anyone cares as it's not something people talk about. When you bring up stuff like this EXPLAIN what you are talking about!!!

If you are talking about the difference in times between the mile and the 1500 then you are giving the advantage to modern runners, as if uniforms, facilities, psychology, medical, and training advantages were not enough!!!

By the way I can bench press 370 pounds and squat 135 pounds. Gee I'm outstanding. If everyone would wear these shoes they would all run fast like me! Gee don't you want to be me, I'm the smartest.