German Fernandez, GOAT HS?

I should have clarified I was considering US born male HS runners in the US.

So far, the following have been mentioned, and very few consider GF the GOAT. Gonna (eventually) research these other HS runner's accomplishments.

ryun

lindgren

rupp

verzbikas

virgin

webb

ritz

chapa

hunter

liquori

The stream of consciousness that led me to start this thread in 2016 is

- read an article about a local HS runner who won his division at the California state meet (run at Woodward Park) this year

- researched the details, history, and records for the Woodward Park course

- since GF has the course record, researched GF and saw his same day 4:00/8:34 1600/3200 double and was very impressed.

Another previous similar thread has good info.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6561540

Rick Riley had an 8:47 2 mile. How does that compare to 3200. He also had a couple of 4:04 miles with nobody pushing him. I think Prefontaine broke his 2 mile record just a couple of years later.

Senior-Lazarus_Long wrote:

Rick Riley had an 8:47 2 mile. How does that compare to 3200. He also had a couple of 4:04 miles with nobody pushing him. I think Prefontaine broke his 2 mile record just a couple of years later.

Rick Riley ran 8:48 for 2-miles in 1966.

But the important thing to note is that Riley ran that 8:48 over fifty years ago, on a dirt track in Pullman, Washington during the WA State Meet. It was also very hot (92F degrees) and Riley was all alone as the nearest competitor was around 9:30. 8:48 converts to 8:45 for 3200m.

Gerry Lindgren was on the infield during the race cheering Riley on. :)

Also of note: Riley ran an amazing 14:00.2 for 5000m a couple weeks later, also on a dirt track.

This must have been one of the most distance amazing meets ever seen and Chapa ran 30 seconds faster the next year:

http://www.runningentertainment.com/hulst/junior_nats_1975.pdf

HRE wrote:

You can only compare athletes against the era they competed in. No high school runners have been legitimate internationalists since the 60s. Ryun beat TWO Olympic medallists who were still competing seriously less than a year after they won their medals. No high school runner since has ever done anything like that. He ranked 4th in the world as a high school runner. There's just no comparison. Recent high school runners have done great relative to their own age groups but no Americans were legitimate world class competitors as high school runners.

The problem with this whole mindset is that by these standards, no high schooler can ever again be as "good" as Ryun. I know a lot of people like it that that way because Ryun gives them a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, but it should be obvious that a high schooler today could be a thoroughly better runner than Ryun and still have no hope of being competitive internationally while on high school.

Yes he was a great runner in HS. In track people get hung up on debating who was the GOAT. It can be good to appreciate the many great runners from different years without concerning oneself with arguing over who is the GOAT.

"He is the best high school runner of all time behind Lukas Verzbicas."

Complete age cheat & parent took performance enhancing drugs while in was in the womb! Not even 'American' at the time. Showed complete contempt for the sport and other runners by walking across the finish line at FL.

"Lukas Verzibicas - sub 4 high school miler"

Older than German when he ran that time and German did 3:55 younger on his own with no one to push or help!

"holds the all time high school 2 mile".

Only because he ran it along with professionals being pulled along and would have never done it on his own. Wouldnt have come close in a high school only race.

"Nearly came close to Craig's Virgin State meet record - but didn't get it - Ha!

Virgin did it with way less natural talent and no parent coaches and genetic advantage! In fact Virgin was often seen running with a bag for his urine because of constant health problems - Way way tougher than - "I cant win my first college race so I bail out on my teammates and say F-you to the whole Oregon system & scholarship because I'm so cool."

The state of Illinois did not allow him to compete at the Illinois high school track meets. He definitely would had own the 1600 and 3200 meters record now if there was no opposition from the committee prevented him from participated"

- That's because they recognized him for the epigenetic age cheater/foreigner that he was.

Guys seriously enough with this stupid debate. All high school guys were trounced by one girl. Deal with it.

Who do you think is the g.o.a.t in high school? Do you have a grudge on foreigners competing in high school meets. Do you have any evidences to back up your arguments? Runners like Edward Cheserek, Lukas, others foreigners will continue to be recruited here by high school coaches in need of talent to remain relevant.

Eras wrote:

There's more pros now, like way more, also the best runners arnt European they're African, saying someone was closer to pros back in a day when not many pros and Africans weren't really on the stage yet is pretty foolish.

You do a great disservice to the depth of American milers of the sixties. Dyrol Burleson, Archie San Romani, Tom O'Hara, Jim Beatty, and a slew of others. Also, Ryun had to qualify for Tokyo via multiple Olympic trials.

Honorable mention to Pre for making US national team as HS senior.

Has anyone broken Chapa's 28:22 HS record?

I know this is LetsRun but since OP didn't specify I'm gonna go with Bob Mathias. Gold medal at 17 in an event he just picked up.

Burning yourself out is not my definition of great.

HRE wrote:

Tell Ron Clarke or Ryun or any Olympic marathoner the Africans weren't on the stage.

Come on now, be fair.

This final:

Looks very different than this final:

I know I'm in the minority,but I think the secret to the Kenyans and Ethiopians is that they are competing with fastest runners in the world growing up.

Agreed. He didn't turn18 till his freshman year at OSU in NOVEMBER.

Too bad OSU ran him into the ground and ruined him, because that was one of our best shots at an Olympic medal in the 5000m.

messi wrote:

Has anyone broken Chapa's 28:22 HS record?

You mean 28:32. No one will ever break that record. It is so far beyond belief that is the reason Chapa isn't mentioned in the top 3 for GOAT honors.

How great was that run??? No one in the history of OH colleges has ever run that fast. That is 2 * 14:16 5k back to back. 6 * 4:35.5 miles back to back.

3 * 9:08 3200m back to back. Think about that when talking about GOAT status.

I'm being fair. Africans were winning and placing in Olympic races since 1964. Non Africans used to be competitive with them and then weren't so the ones who were competitive were probably better runners than the ones who weren't. Keino needed a race at an altitude he was adapted to and Ryun wasn't and to have Ryun recovering from mono to manage to beat him. And Keino was really good.

No one ever "wins" these sorts of discussions but when I see a US high school runner who is ranked in the top 10 in his/her event or is beating Olympic medalists or world record holders I'll consider them equal to Ryun and Lindgren but probably not before.

damn had no idea about bob mathias. the faxt that he never makes these lists shows the distance runner bias on these boards. has any other hs athlete gotten a gold medal while in hs?

he did it summer after hs so i dont think it counts, except for the fact that he was at that level during his senipr year. basically so you can cobsider his ability(olympic gold level) but not the actual medal.

can any other hser make that claim? olympic gold ability while in hs?

Didn't Lingren run 6 mile in 27:11?