German Fernandez, GOAT HS?

Loud Asian Neighbor Kids wrote:

He's got my vote, 8:34 3200 3 hours after going 4:00 for the 1600, and 14:24 at Woodward, etc.

I started a similar-ish thread once,

it always gets better wrote:

fhfh wrote:

It is between Ryun and Lindgren. I would put Webb right after them but he isn't quite on their level.

I don't understand people's reluctance to give recent generations their due. Every generation is better than the last. Webb was objectively better than Ryun, just as my kids will be better than me, and their kids will be better than them.

Maybe because Webb did not beat an Olympic Champion while in HS while setting the AR.

Mary Cain is the High School GOAT. I love how guys still revert to thinking guys outperform girls, even when they fall far short.

I think he canat least be said to have the same talent level as a Ritz or Webb.

marycain is wrote:

Mary Cain is the High School GOAT. I love how guys still revert to thinking guys outperform girls, even when they fall far short.

Valid point. Decker, Gallagher, Plumer, and Baxter are also all certainly within the realm of greatest ever American high school distance runners. Hell, Baxter's arguably the greatest prep XC runner ever.

German is close, but the GOAT is Gerry Lindgren. He made the Olympic team just weeks out of high school. He was 9 seconds off the World Record for 5000m the week he graduated HS, running 13:44 flat on a clay track over fifty years ago. He also beat two huge stars a month before they became Olympic Champions (Billy Mills and Bob Schul) in a 4-mile exhibition XC race at fabled Mt. Sac. And he ran 4:01 mile and 13:17 3-mile both on dirt a day apart in Jamaica. And he ran 8:40 flat for indoor 2-mile on an 11-laps-to-a-mile wooden indoor track chasing WR-holder Ron Clarke. And while in HS, he was the first American to ever win an international 10,000m race. Lindgren is GOAT in HS.

fat cat2 wrote:

Loud Asian Neighbor Kids wrote:

He's got my vote, 8:34 3200 3 hours after going 4:00 for the 1600, and 14:24 at Woodward, etc.

He is the best high school runner of all time behind Lukas Verzbicas.

Lukas Verzibicas - sub 4 high school miler

holds the all time high school 2 mile.

Nearly came close to Craig's Virgin State meet record.

The state of Illinois did not allow him to compete at the Illinois high school track meets. He definitely would had own the 1600 and 3200 meters record now if there was no opposition from the committee prevented him from participated

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You forgot what is arguably more important: undefeated at XC, across all meets. 2x Footlocker and an NXN for fun. All three dominating runs where he wasn't pushed at all and still won by 15+ seconds.

Why are you people jacking off Fernandez at the end of 2016? Merry Christmas

fhfh wrote:

Dead drunk wrote:

Jim Ryun made the Olympic Team as a high school junior. He set the American record in the mile beating the Olympic Champion.

EOT.

It is between Ryun and Lindgren. I would put Webb right after them but he isn't quite on their level.

+!.

They are the only 2 (800m & above) that I can recall who could compete not just nationally but internationally while still in HS. Everyone else was just better than their HS peers.

No one can or should ever forget what he accomplished in high school and in early college. He was simply jaw-droppingly good! But he's a hard one to figure out. He goes through these long dry spells of nothing, then emerges with a couple of great races and fast times and then disappears once again. Why didn't he race with Derrick in Japan for instance? He likes his privacy and keeps a low profile these days but he should be racing a hell of a lot more. Look how frequently Rupp and Centro are out there. German can still PR if he can put it all together and stay uninjured - there's nothing that Chris can do that German isn't capable of physically. Maybe he just needs to totally leave Jerry's group (maybe he already has?) and train with others who can bring the beast out of him? I don't think he's out of time either. At 25/26 he can still focus his strength and produce something spectacular, something in the range of a 27:20 and or 13.10. It took Ritz several tries before he hit 2:07 mark. If he's not permanently injured, then German's not done yet unless he's decided already in his mind that it is. Look how many crap races Leo M had but yet won BIG when he really needed to! He needs to force himself to run at least four high profile races this spring and lead right from the start and put himself out there - Hell, try and lead Boston for the first 10k, get the rush back, then jog it - He needs to break this stupid gridlock! Look at Kawauchi and how many crap races he's put out there but he does nail it eventually and now the guys a total F'ing Samurai Beast! German is way faster on the track already though - go train with him - seriously!!!!!

it always gets better wrote:

fhfh wrote:

It is between Ryun and Lindgren. I would put Webb right after them but he isn't quite on their level.

I don't understand people's reluctance to give recent generations their due. Every generation is better than the last. Webb was objectively better than Ryun, just as my kids will be better than me, and their kids will be better than them.

Np, every generation is really about the same as the last. Times are a by product of their eras. Running a faster time than someone from a previous generation does not automatically make you better.

Which recent high school star has made an Olympic team? Which recent high school star has won international competitions against Olympians and world record holders? Lindgren, Ryun, and Marty Liquori are the only US high school runners to have done so.

HRE wrote:

it always gets better wrote:

I don't understand people's reluctance to give recent generations their due. Every generation is better than the last. Webb was objectively better than Ryun, just as my kids will be better than me, and their kids will be better than them.

Np, every generation is really about the same as the last. Times are a by product of their eras. Running a faster time than someone from a previous generation does not automatically make you better.

Which recent high school star has made an Olympic team? Which recent high school star has won international competitions against Olympians and world record holders? Lindgren, Ryun, and Marty Liquori are the only US high school runners to have done so.

This is not a fair argument. For one, the whole idea of a professional runner didn't exist then as it does now. Secondly, as more and more cream rises to the top, it no longer even becomes possible. In the mile for instance, I think only 2 or 3 HS kids have run within 15 seconds of the current world record (though of course, Ryun is one).

You can only compare athletes against the era they competed in. No high school runners have been legitimate internationalists since the 60s. Ryun beat TWO Olympic medallists who were still competing seriously less than a year after they won their medals. No high school runner since has ever done anything like that. He ranked 4th in the world as a high school runner. There's just no comparison. Recent high school runners have done great relative to their own age groups but no Americans were legitimate world class competitors as high school runners.

There's more pros now, like way more, also the best runners arnt European they're African, saying someone was closer to pros back in a day when not many pros and Africans weren't really on the stage yet is pretty foolish.

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No they were not the only ones. Worth the read from my generation.

Jim Ryan is still GOAT--none of these other guys beat or even came close to beating world class runners

Lukas Verzbicas

Except of perhaps Lingdren but it was only this past year that someone beat his world junior 800 m time and he also ran 8:25 2 mile as a junior

Tell Ron Clarke or Ryun or any Olympic marathoner the Africans weren't on the stage.