Verheul method

I ordered it earlier today.

Would value your opinion, HRE. I know you're a Lydiard guy but, interestingly I think their ideas were similar in many ways.

The reason for the slower approach is to keep everything relaxed and therefore aerobic (even for the 400's & 200's). This means the runner can achieve high-end aerobic running, everyday without breaking down. Very similar to Lydiard's ideas but he just preferred constant, steadier efforts. Verheul's guys may have been running intervals everyday but they were definitely not running hard. They used races as the harder efforts but in-between it was very, very easy!

Hope you enjoy.

After re-reading this thread I also ordered the book today. I want to get faster in the 10k, so am going to give this method a shot. Big difference in price between US Amazon and UK Amazon. Half price on UK site compared to US site.

I also was surprised about the price difference. My publisher Choir Press is puzzled as well. Probably Amazon.co.uk printed a bunch and wants to sell these books quickly. Rest assured this discount will be temporarily.

I've also ordered the book.

Looks really interesting. Incredible system.

Big change for most training systems.

After spending the last year without improving, I hope to make a jump thanks to this system.

Dreams: sub 31'30''/10k and sub 15' /5k.

The book got here about three hours ago. I've only had a chance to glance at it but it looks very interesting. Somewhere when I read about this method I wrote, maybe earlier in this thread, that I can see similarities with van Aaken who, despite what many people in the US came to believe about his method, used quite a lot of interval training but not very fast interval training and with long recoveries.

The absurd price difference m between amazon.co.uk (half the price) and other amazon-websites turned out to be an IT error by Amazon. It has been corrected.

HRE wrote:

The book got here about three hours ago. I've only had a chance to glance at it but it looks very interesting. Somewhere when I read about this method I wrote, maybe earlier in this thread, that I can see similarities with van Aaken who, despite what many people in the US came to believe about his method, used quite a lot of interval training but not very fast interval training and with long recoveries.

Yes, and that's also the danger of this method. You need to be very disciplined, or you'll run the intervals faster than perscribed, and get hurt. Perhaps this is mostly a problem for mid-distance runners who feel more comfortable at faster paces.

But I personally know a runner who has had a lot of succes with this method. He was the M40 European champion on the road and track 10k a couple of times. He won the silver medal in the M50 championships more recently.

I believe this method allows him to train 8-10 times a week in the two months before a big race, and get in race shape very quickly.

There are many masters athletes who have had tremendous success using Verhuel's ideas. I think the fact that everything is relaxed is a huge benefit to the older athlete who maybe can't recover quite as well as the younger runner. Silke Schmidt was world masters runner of the year in 2015 and now as a V60 is still topping the rankings with a 17:59 5000m and 10:28 3000m in 2019. John Van Der Wansem was also a leading Masters' athlete who trained using Verheul's ideas and ran 14:21.6 for 5000m as a sprightly 40 year old!

REM86 wrote:

There are many masters athletes who have had tremendous success using Verhuel's ideas. I think the fact that everything is relaxed is a huge benefit to the older athlete who maybe can't recover quite as well as the younger runner. Silke Schmidt was world masters runner of the year in 2015 and now as a V60 is still topping the rankings with a 17:59 5000m and 10:28 3000m in 2019. John Van Der Wansem was also a leading Masters' athlete who trained using Verheul's ideas and ran 14:21.6 for 5000m as a sprightly 40 year old!

This is why I will give this system a go. Closing in on 50, still doing okay but have to think about recovery much more now. Should be very interesting!

Will be interesting to hear how you get on with it!

Interestingly I also think there are certain parallels with the current 'Tinman CV' craze that is going on. From my understanding the CV stuff is based around slower (not quite 10k pace?) intervals of 6x1km. Verhuel would have his guys going even slower but his 10x400m would be at a similar intensity and obviously they were doing it everyday where's Tinamn still prescribes only 2 'harder' sessions a week with easy runs in-between. The point being that the intensity isn't too dissimilar.

Another sale for you here.

I’m 56 and have been mostly doing Hanson training plans the last few years and haven’t any trouble recovering. That said I look forward to giving this a read and trying to incorporating it into my training since the fastest paces done in Hanson plans is 5k pace.

One of my biggest problems doing marathon training is getting bored on long runs and easy runs that go beyond 8 miles.

How could you use this method without access to a track most days of the week? Is there any advice for the in the book?

I haven't looked any further into the book yet but that was one of my reactions when I first read about this approach. One of Lydiard's big objections to doing interval work during the base phase was that most athletes would want to see "good" splits, maybe be as fast as other people doing the same session, "race" their training and not develop aerobically as well as they could. But a well disciplined runner should be able to avoid this issue. Personally, I don't know that I'd enjoy timing bits of almost every run I did. But I am intrigued.

Ordered a copy as well. Intrigued by the method and if it could apply to an oldish fart like me (turning 41). Also, I think I'm slightly more on the fast twitch end of the muscle fiber spectrum. Just grinding miles have never been a good approach for me. Maybe this method can get a greater amount of my precious muscle fibers to join the party? Or maybe the approach is simply a pleasant way to train. I'll read and find out!

Also ordered the book. I tried an Igloi type of approach years ago with some success. Also saw this thread a while back and was intrigued. The intensity seems very manageable. I agree with the poster above who said that it's important to keep the intensity under control and not overdo it.

Curious about mileage: is this a high mileage kind of approach? Or would it be possible to make this work to some extent with say 30mpw (plus cross-training)?

Are long runs omitted in the marathon training plan ?

"Long endurance run (with surges) is essential"

For half-marathon above Klaas does include long runs but he prefers they are done with surges as opposed to just straight jogging. Also, he advocates more advanced runners do 5x2km (with 1km jog rest) frequently as well. This was one of the biggest changes to Verhuel's original ideas. Klaas said he found it helped his aerobic endurance. With a 3km warm up and cool down a 5x2km session totals 21km which will easily be 90 mins+ for most runners.

In terms of overall mileage it doesn't reach the dizzy heights of 140mpw etc but most of the sessions have very long, relaxed recoveries so the mileage is snuck in there almost without noticing - the recovery jogs are very important parts of the sessions. It's worth bearing in mind though that the total volume of high end aerobic running is very high. Klaas actually gives examples of his training and he would easily hit 50-60km+ of quality, specific mileage every week.