Are treadmill miles valuable?

kmaclam wrote:

Very, very similar to the 'bike conversion' For every 4 miles on the treadmill figure equivalent to 1 mile on the roads. Could do 3 to 1 also I suppose.

I don't even count treadmill miles. Then, when all the losers I just crushed ask me how many miles I ran over the winter, I tell them I didn't run any I just cross trained some.

I'm not sure, ask Mo Farah's snapchat story.

Treadmill seemed to work well for a certain 209 marathon guy

Brrrrrr wrote:

I'm asking if treadmill miles are comparable to outdoor miles, or whether they are so different that specificity is seriously compromised. I will brace the conditions if need be. I'd prefer not to.

Yes, they are different. Example; My typical outdoor pace is always much slower than what my overall pace is on the treadmill. Why? Because the treadmill is going that fast, not me. Inside, the treadmill is moving me. Outside, I'm moving me.

off base wrote:

You don't need to run on an incline, but if you don't you will need to run a little faster. If you want to run 10 miles at 6:00 pace, set the treadmill at 10.5 mph and run for an hour.

I think this maxim applies to most, but not all runners. I for one, am significantly slower on the treadmill compared to outside, despite a fair amount of experience with both.

2:28 marathon this year with all speedwork on the treadmill, including stuff like miles and 1ks at 4:50 to 5:00 pace. I kept the incline at 0 because my weakness as a runner is legspeed so I'd rather run faster, easier than try to match effort. I ran a few treadmill workouts indicating 2:25 fitness but obviously I wasn't at that level.

I'm in TX and it's impossible to run long tempos outside anywhere near race pace during the summer.

I am in Florida, so I suffer similarly to you during the summer, but I prefer to deal with the heat (typically low 90s) and humidity (dew points in the low to mid 70s) on my training runs so that come that cool fall marathon race day, it is like a gift from heaven. You just need to adjust your times a bit and go off of perceived effort rather than time. Plus, there is at least a little bit of research out there that suggests that running in the heat causes beneficial adaptation in that your blood plasma increases.Of course, you have had success with the approach you have taken, so I am not being critical. Just giving folks perspective on the other side of that coin.

Andyyy Dufresne wrote:

2:28 marathon this year with all speedwork on the treadmill, including stuff like miles and 1ks at 4:50 to 5:00 pace. I kept the incline at 0 because my weakness as a runner is legspeed so I'd rather run faster, easier than try to match effort. I ran a few treadmill workouts indicating 2:25 fitness but obviously I wasn't at that level.

I'm in TX and it's impossible to run long tempos outside anywhere near race pace during the summer.

Sorg 1-1.5 incline yes. Many top runners do this. Marius Bakker did all his work on treadmill prior to his 13 low 5k breakthrough. Also the Ingebrigtsen brothers use it a lot...Bekele has one in his house....mo farah is always on the treadmill on snapchat

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You also mentioned using heart rate to measure effort. A problem that is often overlooked when on a treadmill is that the lack of wind resistence takes away an effective way your body uses to cool itself. If you are hotter, you have to use more energy to cool down and that results in a higher heart rate and eventually your pace will slow.

http://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/

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This! I don't know why people don't take the lack of cooling into account. I've done a lot of treadmill running, including workouts, and I never use an incline. I do the same exact pace I planned to do outside. If there is any difference in the effort required, it's minimal. In fact, my perceived effort is usually greater on the treadmill than outside.

But pick a good gym, the indoor air

quality is bad at many of them research show, even toxic mold found in water damaged gyms - mold will do more than slow your running down

Unless you are a pro, it will be more difficult for you to run on a treadmill and here is why:

Outdoors, there is little penalty for a missed stride - something that goes wrong for whatever reason that causes you to get less out of one particular stride. On the treadmill, you fall back and there is the fear that you will fall off. As a result of that, you speed up to the point that you try to outrun the belt. That will be so for 15-20 seconds.

We use the treadmill at a 0deg incline. Outdoors times are always faster than indoor/treadmill.

I will also disagree with the incline. Most treadmills provide some cushion. You will quickly find yourself in a pulling motion, one that is a pronounced overstride. Arm movement will be insufficient to generate enough rebound of the treadmill to the same degree that it does outdoors b/c the thing will shake as if it were in an earthquake. Also, accentuating arm movement will change other parts of your stride.

But ... treadmill work is very valuable. Stick to quick, short arm movement, high hips and you will get a great hamstring workout in any HR range, probably short of anaerobic.

Mo Farrah posted a video on his instagram over the weekend - he was looking out the window and said it was to cold so he was hitting the treadmill for his 20 mile run. Then posted another video after showing he ran 20.01m on the treadmill.

If Treadmill Miles are good enough for Mo then they're good enough for a hobby jogger like you.

Yes, treadmill miles are valuable. The difference between outdoor running is negligible.

However, I think there IS value in training in miserable conditions. Makes you tougher. What are going to do if the weather is bad for your goal race? Skip it and run on the treadmill?

I hear Jill Greathouse uses the treadmill.

queastionater wrote:

Yes, treadmill miles are valuable. The difference between outdoor running is negligible.

However, I think there IS value in training in miserable conditions. Makes you tougher. What are going to do if the weather is bad for your goal race? Skip it and run on the treadmill?

Suffer one day instead of more than one day?

You are right about specificity. If you are never going to race in the cold, then there is no reason to ever run in the cold.

On the other hand, if you are going to a warm climate to race from a cold climate, you are a fool not to get heat acclimated before you go.

queastionater wrote:

Yes, treadmill miles are valuable. The difference between outdoor running is negligible.

However, I think there IS value in training in miserable conditions. Makes you tougher. What are going to do if the weather is bad for your goal race? Skip it and run on the treadmill?

No, I would run the race in the conditions,as I said I do multiple times a week. The problem with outdoor running in weather isn't only related to the lack of comfort. It's also a logistical pain to get more clothes on, which adds to the laundry loss, etc., etc.

queastionater wrote:

Yes, treadmill miles are valuable. The difference between outdoor running is negligible.

However, I think there IS value in training in miserable conditions. Makes you tougher. What are going to do if the weather is bad for your goal race? Skip it and run on the treadmill?

No, I would run the race in the conditions,as I said I do multiple times a week. The problem with outdoor running in weather isn't only related to the lack of comfort. It's also a logistical pain to get more clothes on, which adds to the laundry loss, etc., etc.