Bill Aris' Fayetteville-Manlius team has already got its run in today - Have you?

vhslneedstowakeup wrote:

I'm jealous, in Virginia the last two days have been mandatory "dead days" for all sports. Meaning we are not allowed to have practice Wednesday or Thursday or any contact with our athletes. Very conducive for those competing in the NXR SE meet two days later.

If your athletes are dedicated the coach doesn't have to be there on a "dead" day.

What were they doing 2 days before a race where they needed a coach there anyway?

themanontherun wrote:

Kids with average talent do above average training and then do above average things in a team effort, then "disappear" as individuals when competing against enormously talented individuals doing above average training for the first time in their lives? Color me shocked.

You can be good in HS with poor talent and great training. You can be good in high school with great talent and poor training. To stand out in college you need both. Why is this so hard to understand?

This x1000.

Most HS runners never scratch the surface of their potential.

Aris' program wouldn't fly everywhere. Here in Vermont, parents, teachers, and administrators would be shocked if Fat Timmy were actually expected to run 3 whole miles at practice in order to be on the XC team. To be totally fair, I'm sure he runs a lot of kids off, and he definitely gets a few of the others injured... but he gets the most out of kids that can go through his program. And that's a good thing, IMO.

Look at his boys team this year... yeah, it's a down year for NY teams, but with next-to-nothing to work with talent-wise, he's got his guys in the hunt for an NXN berth. Maybe his best coaching job ever.

Yes I'm happy for Neal. I thought she'd make it (and she did). However the rec. of the school's grads are not good.

I'm not talking about girls who factor as top-7 runners in quality programs. I'm addressing the fact that many have not even been able to function as college-level athletes.

Runners who come from programs with a lot of structure and that are coach-driven usually have great performance records in high school with subsequent lapses in individual performance in college.

It doesn't mean the high school is doing it wrong. Coaches have at most a 4 year window with these kids, so develop them as much as possible.

The reason for the lack of development in college isn't because they're physically maxed, but probably due more to the fact that they are not handling lack of structure and a much higher level of autonomy well.

I've heard of college programs that let their athletes run solo most days of the week. That is just bizarre to me.

So coming from a Fay-Man program where a kid meets with the team on Thanksgiving, doesn't it make sense that this could test the athlete in terms of ambition and drive? Maybe what really fuels the greatness of these HS kids is the team structure and family atmosphere at Fay-Man.

To act like it would have been better had they backed off a bunch in HS is ridiculous.

Did they take their iron supplements today?

Villanova, Prov., Dartmouth, Cal all have had FM athletes in recent years. None have risen to the level of mediocre.

I've worked with more than one FM graduate in college. A problem I have dealt with is getting them to buy into my system. There is a certain "cult" (for lack of a better term) for FM grads. It results in a lot of great HS success but not a lot of true understanding of running and their body.

It is certainly fine to have the goal of maximizing a runners HS success, but only if they know it may result in reduced success later in life. My personal feeling is that is not the best way to educate HS runners, but I see why others would disagree.

35,000ftview wrote:

http://highschoolsports.syracuse.com/news/article/-2499915622872553215/fayetteville-manlius-senior-kaitlyn-neal-sits-out-state-meet/

Wow! Did you read this article!?!

The girl had one+ weeks left in her high school running career (including the most important races of the track season) & pulled the plug!

And, the dad speaks for her to say that she "needed a break." UGH!

Oh, let's not forget she was already accepted the UW to run. Sheez.

As a coach, I would be so angry! Kudos to Coach Aris for taking the high road & not discussing the situation!

Insane Parents! wrote:

35,000ftview wrote:http://highschoolsports.syracuse.com/news/article/-2499915622872553215/fayetteville-manlius-senior-kaitlyn-neal-sits-out-state-meet/

Wow! Did you read this article!?!

The girl had one+ weeks left in her high school running career (including the most important races of the track season) & pulled the plug!

And, the dad speaks for her to say that she "needed a break." UGH!

Oh, let's not forget she was already accepted the UW to run. Sheez.

As a coach, I would be so angry! Kudos to Coach Aris for taking the high road & not discussing the situation!

Even more fascinating are the comments on the article. All 4 support taking the final week of her HS career off.

She needed a break? Wasn't it up to UW to have given her a break in their summer training program?

Doesn't seem to make any sense. These meets are what people train for.

This type of attitude is likely why she sat out. It's a high school race; there are other things in life.I initially thought that all of this FM bashing was baseless, but I can see how overzealous coaches and parents can totally ruin a sport for a kid.Young kids should be getting aerobically fit, while working on their agility, top speed and generally enjoying themselves. Trying to win state every year means tons of intervals and rushing kids' development.A coach that truly cares about their athletes (and isn't just using them to fulfill some god complex) would focus on their long-term development and would actively encourage an athlete to take a break if they're not "feeling it." I've been lucky enough to have one coach (of six in my life) who actually thought this way.

Insane Parents! wrote:

Wow! Did you read this article!?!

The girl had one+ weeks left in her high school running career (including the most important races of the track season) & pulled the plug!

And, the dad speaks for her to say that she "needed a break." UGH!

Oh, let's not forget she was already accepted the UW to run. Sheez.

As a coach, I would be so angry! Kudos to Coach Aris for taking the high road & not discussing the situation!

There are other programs in NY S that race 3 seasons. Aris tends to have a very low key indoor season. XC is their big season. Again other schools seem to race their kids every month of the year. The Aris' seem to let these kids be kids while teaching them valuable lessons and giving them pride. Congrats to their boys who came out of nowhere to peak when it mattered.

So this thread was started on THANKSGIVING DAY which is the #1 day ALL YEAR for people to participate in races. The OP thinks it is a big deal to get a run in on Thanksgiving morning? To answer his question, probably 90% OF ALL RUNNERS ALREADY HAD THEIR RUN IN by noon!

They let their kids be kids??? Fell off my chair on that a one, wow??

markeroon wrote:

This type of attitude is likely why she sat out. It's a high school race; there are other things in life.

I initially thought that all of this FM bashing was baseless, but I can see how overzealous coaches and parents can totally ruin a sport for a kid.

Young kids should be getting aerobically fit, while working on their agility, top speed and generally enjoying themselves. Trying to win state every year means tons of intervals and rushing kids' development.

A coach that truly cares about their athletes (and isn't just using them to fulfill some god complex) would focus on their long-term development and would actively encourage an athlete to take a break if they're not "feeling it." I've been lucky enough to have one coach (of six in my life) who actually thought this way.

Name one coach you know who "actively encourages" their best athlete to to "take a break" the week of State championships?

I can see it now!

"Sit this one final tapered mileage week out. I know 5 more days are just too stressful. Your welcome for that whole national championship experience!"

Says no coach ever.

I find the whole thing perplexing.

I also don't understand the comments on laying off for long-term development. Wtf does that mean? 95%+ of high school runners don't even run in college much less have a shot at the pro scene.

So is it that once in a lifetime kid you lay off of? Or do you let the 50 mpw 1600 boy and 1900 girl run 1730 and 2030, respectively, so they can develop later when they're hobby jogging in college instead of getting on a roster?

It just makes no sense. Aris does a great job. Unbelievably good.

+1000000

Except look at a school like Wayzata, MN which has only its top runners go over 60 miles a week, but had 12 runners sub-10 minutes this fall in a track timetrial, while training for a cross country 5k. Regularly has runners run ~9 min and sub 4:20 and get scholarships.

Just saying, you don't have to burn out kids in high school to get them developed enough to make college teams. Most of training is about being efficient.

Agreed. Except molding young runners who are coachable in college.

example: wayzata wrote:

Except look at a school like Wayzata, MN which has only its top runners go over 60 miles a week, but had 12 runners sub-10 minutes this fall in a track timetrial, while training for a cross country 5k. Regularly has runners run ~9 min and sub 4:20 and get scholarships.

Just saying, you don't have to burn out kids in high school to get them developed enough to make college teams. Most of training is about being efficient.

Burnout doesn't come solely from mileage.

It can come from blasting intervals or cranking every run.

It can come from being top dog to getting beaten by other teammates who work harder.

Burnout is simply a state in which you no longer feel like the consistent effort is worth it.