I met a 2:18 marathoner this week, he said he does most of his mileage at 8:00 pace.. how?

I'm a Doper wrote:

An honest question wrote:

Why are we capitalizing "doping" now?

Because that's the Big Thing.

Unrelated, My Friend's Ex-Wife Used To Capitalize Every Word In A Sentence, Like This. In My Opinion, This Alone Was Grounds For Divorce.

Flagstaff Hero wrote:

Have you come to a similar conclusion for her pace-boy? Or is it just that the high-altitude Flagstaff caffeine is super-potent?

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

My conclusion is:

Ms. Paula Radcliffe is a Brit Doper-Cheater-Liarâ„¢.

Man, that would funny to see the lady behind the counter's face @ the patents office when you propose "I'd like to trade mark Brit Doper Cheater Liar please"

I was not aware that Ms. Paula "Perfect Brit Blood" Radcliffe used a "male escort". Did the Britexit tabloids publish any stories on that sex scandal?

I thought it was a photo of Paula passing a hobby jogger at the end of the race. Paula looks like she is irritated by the male-escort-hobby joggerâ„¢.

Paula always looks like that.

"I cant remember the exact numbers, but last year there were over 200 Japanese runners who did a marathon in under 2:10."

:)

I think your memory is wrong. Most years there are 5-10 Japanese guys sub 2:10 unless there are 180+ guys running sub 2:10 in races that never get reported in western press. What do they do have a is crap load sub 2:20 as every 29-30 min 10k runner in college takes a serious shot at the marathon. Those are the 2:15-2:20 guys that have disappeared in the US that we had in the 70s.

Some of their half-marathons have over a hundred under 1:05, IIRC

asdfasdfa wrote:

"I cant remember the exact numbers, but last year there were over 200 Japanese runners who did a marathon in under 2:10."

:)

I think your memory is wrong. Most years there are 5-10 Japanese guys sub 2:10 unless there are 180+ guys running sub 2:10 in races that never get reported in western press. What do they do have a is crap load sub 2:20 as every 29-30 min 10k runner in college takes a serious shot at the marathon. Those are the 2:15-2:20 guys that have disappeared in the US that we had in the 70s.

Yes, what you remember is the half .

Brett Larner:

"Takeda Follows Osako as Fourth Man to Break 62 Minutes at Ageo City Half, Leading 197 Under 66"

HobsJog wrote:

loqueelvientoajuarez wrote:

MAF is not easy! Unless you're unfit...

(1) According to the web page it is within 15 seconds per mile of marathon pace, let's say 95% MP approx. That's moderate/steady by all accounts, not easy.

(2) If you take the average person with a maximum heart rate of 220 - age, the 180 - age + 5 formula yields about 80-82% MHR. It is likely to be lower for older athletes, but people training with Phil get their MAF actually measured and it's typically 78-83% MHR. That's not easy! 60-75% MHR is typically felt as "easy".

(3) It is described as just below aerobic threshold/first ventilatory threshold.

This is exactly correct.

It's hilarious that so many people are thrown off by the term MAF! Just call it zone 2 (for the pedantic, generally the top end of zone 2) and go about your miserable days, LMAO.

…which means that you could just use the simple Talk test, which is at the point when it becomes difficult to speak comfortably. This simple method has high correlation with treadmill tests (and RPE) to determine the ventilatory threshold. It is at around 78.5-83.1% of HRmax and at 67.2% to 73.9% of VO2max in this study:

In conclusion:

1) The stupid MAF Method and 180-age formula of chiropractor Phil Maffetone has nothing that is unique or original.

2) The stupid MAF method is a stupid rip-off with zero published research and zero Olympic medalists who have used his stupid method.

3) Phil Maffetone must be STOPPED.

I was a 2:13 guy, and ran 70% of my milage at 11:00 pace. What's the problem. That is a great half marathon time!!! 😃

sure thing wrote:

I was a 2:13 guy, and ran 70% of my milage at 11:00 pace. What's the problem. That is a great half marathon time!!! 😃

So you just have to run 5:30 for 70% of your miles and you run 2:13 for the marathon ;-)

Pikachu wrote:

sure thing wrote:

I was a 2:13 guy, and ran 70% of my milage at 11:00 pace. What's the problem. That is a great half marathon time!!! 😃

So you just have to run 5:30 for 70% of your miles and you run 2:13 for the marathon ;-)

Worked for Nenow, except he ran 2:14 and 27:20

Fat CaliDog wrote:

metemq wrote:

He was cruising on the trail, i met up w/ him at the parking lot and was asking about his mileage and stuff, anyhow he said he did around 80% of his running slow around 8min pace... and his MP is low 5mins.. how?

The only way to see what someone is really doing in training is to look at their log, and with new technology, Strava seems to be the best and easiest way to follow runners and see what they are doing. Follow a couple of 2:18-2:20 guys, I think you'll see their workouts vary, but that they all run a ton.

100% of Sage Canaday's running last week: 100 miles, 7:47 per mile average, 10,246 feet of elevation gain.

With 80% of 120 MPW at 8:00/M (at 7,000 ft, which is certainly worth quite a bit faster at sea level--NCAA converter for 1M is 9.8 seconds but that varies based on pace and distance), then that leaves 24 miles per week at faster paces. Let's say that he runs a 6xmile workout, a 10M tempo, and, say, the last 8M of a long run at tempo. That would be pretty much hard work still.

Vdot app says 8:00 at 7000 ft is equal to 7:34 at sea level. I know of sub 29 guys who run a lot of their miles at this pace.

So you say.

Read about it wrote:

Vdot app says 8:00 at 7000 ft is equal to 7:34 at sea level. I know of sub 29 guys who run a lot of their miles at this pace.

I know of a sub 29 guy who ran easy days at 6 to 6:30.

fred wrote:

asdfasdfa wrote:

I think your memory is wrong. Most years there are 5-10 Japanese guys sub 2:10 unless there are 180+ guys running sub 2:10 in races that never get reported in western press. What do they do have a is crap load sub 2:20 as every 29-30 min 10k runner in college takes a serious shot at the marathon. Those are the 2:15-2:20 guys that have disappeared in the US that we had in the 70s.

Yes, what you remember is the half .

Yikes, I was hoping that my post wouldn't be misread. Note the link to the article about the 2:06 Japanese marathoner, the quotation marks, and the emoticon after the quotation. I know that there has never been a year in which over 200 Japanese marathoners broke 2:10. That's crazy. There haven't been over 200 Japanese marathoners who ever broke 2:10. I thought that the article might have meant 2:20 rather than 2:10, but I'm fairly confident that Japan has not had over 200 marathoners under 2:20 in any recent year, so I'm not sure what the author was thinking. (Keep in mind that I'm talking about the number of marathoners, not the number of marathon performances.)

As "asdfasdfa" indicated, the U.S. had lots of sub-2:20 marathoners in the 1970s, and even more in the 1980s. Perhaps it would be useful to look at the training that most of those guys were doing, instead of what the latest fad (or Internet guru) is proclaiming to be the right way to train.

I trained very little with other runners, so I can't be certain about how all of the other 2:18 marathoners trained, but I remember many training logs, schedules, and discussions, and I think that a 2:18 marathoner who does 80% of his training at 8-minute pace is something of an outlier, even if he's running 150 miles per week at 7,000 feet. I have read books and articles about doing the bulk of one's training at such a low level of intensity (relative to, say, marathon pace), but I'm a bit of a skeptic about 2:18 marathoners who run only twenty or (at most) thirty miles a week faster than 8-minute pace, unless they possess an abundance of talent at shorter distances. Of course, I could be wrong, in which case many of us were making this sport inordinately difficult.

I never managed sub 2:20 but knew several guys who'd gone that fast in the 70s and 80s. None of them did much of anything as slow as 8:00 pace. I'd say 6:00-6:45 was a pretty common pace for everyday distance runs. Of course I didn't know everybody but it was very uncommon for guys that fast to train that slow. Bob Deines might be the one exception but he never quite got under 2:20.

Good info.

An elite runner might do a recovery run 3 mind per mile slower than Mp but not the majority of their steady work. Don't forget mp is not all out to begin with. Their 20km race pace is 4:30-40 so 6 mind miling us easy for them

A Kenyan pack doing a steady run may even start at even 10 min miling but they will be running faster than 7 min miling after a few miles warm up.

fred wrote:

Pikachu wrote:

So you just have to run 5:30 for 70% of your miles and you run 2:13 for the marathon ;-)

Worked for Nenow, except he ran 2:14 and 27:20

Hey fred, I'm sorry, English isn't my mother tongue, so I am not sure if you are joking or serious :-)

I just want to clarify that I believe Nenow was pretty good and I like his simple but effective approach to training theory. I know he "only" ran 2:14 but if he stayed healthy or ran the marathon a couple years earlier I'm sure he could have gone sub 2:10.

Marathoners that do most of their miles at 8:00-pace (I'm talking flat and good footing and sea-level) and do not run insanely high mileage who are running 2:18 or faster are the exception. And tbh: I'd rather run 100 - 130 miles with a big chunk at at 6ish pace than 180 miles with most of it at 8:00 - but to each his own.

Pikachu