bad rule instituted for NCAA meets

It is clearly states indoor previous season bests for indoor and outdoor previous season bests for outdoor. This means a freshmen all American in the 800 during the indoor season would have to enter at no time in their first outdoor meet. There is no defending this part of the rule.

Further, in forcing everyone to enter the first race of the season at their previous season PR, you are recreating the speculative mark 'problem'. Most of the field will be no where near that fitness level. In susuquent weeks, the problem continues as someone making a return from injury is forced to race at previous season PR. That or wait until February and run in the slowest section with a no time entry.

Running more races isn't in the best interest of an athletes long term development. The knock on the American high school system is too much racing. Now we've created a rule possibly requiring the top college runners to run extra races. Not a good idea.

New entry guidelines wrote:

The knock on the American high school system is too much racing. Now we've created a rule possibly requiring the top college runners to run extra races. Not a good idea.

I think the "knock" is not racing enough. This is a sport and you need to compete. I'm not saying you need to run a 10k every week but racing more is not a bad thing. The current system of racing 2-3 times a week and racing workouts is not good for the sport or the development of the athlete.

And high school kids need to race. It's what makes it fun and they learn to reach that line that takes you to your limits.

I know you don't like to race, or keep score. It makes you look bad when you lose. But the truth is never having any races to report on don't help your coaching career either. Is easy to drop a sport when you never compete.

You are correct 'racing 2-3 times a week is bad for the sport' - that is the typical high school system. The post is about an NCAA rule. I know I brought up high school athletes over racing, but it was to make the point we shouldn't be forcing NCAA athletes to do the same.

Sure it is easy to cut programs that don't compete often, but that argument is highly flawed. I'm talking about individuals and how this rule impacts athletes differently. It is not even across event groups. Would the softball rules committee implement a rule that impacts catchers and short stops more than it impacts other position players. No!

Jumpers, throwers and sprinters are competing nearly every week. Distance runners compete year round and shouldn't be forced to race more often than is needed for their development / for them to qualify for conference meets and some additional sharpening races. Good distance runners in good programs compete in fewer meets for a reason. Not because they are afraid to compete, but because they are preparing to compete at a high level when it counts.

I guess what you fail to realize is this rule could force each long distance athlete to run an extra 5k or 10k or both. That is not in the best interest of long term development. Extra, forced racing is bad. They'd have to race their primary event earlier and in the 5 and 10k that's bad.

Finally, and I'll make this point every time I post about this - the rule as written ignores the performances / success of freshmen athletes during the indoor season. An all-conference, all-regional, or all-American freshman from the indoor season would have to be entered at no mark in the same event in their first outdoor meet. This portion of the rule is indefensible. If we are going to ignore success we are damaging the sport.

Copied and pasted the rule below.

INDOOR:

4th Sunday in January. Should have plenty of time to get in a mark.

OUTDOOR:

5th Sunday after NCAA Indoor Championships (Apr. 15th weekend). Stanford #1, Mt. Sac, etc. are all run within that timeframe.

Should be no issues; outside of freshmen and transfers, BUT, you should be able to get them in a meet before the major ones (UW Indoors, Stanford / Mt. Sac outdoors).

SEE BELOW:

Acceptable Entries

ARTICLE 14.For indoor, outdoor, scored and non-scored competitions:

a. The meet director shall publish, as part of the online information for the competition, a ranked list of event entries disclosing all performances used to determine entry in each event and the source of those performances.

b. Verifiable entry performances shall be used for the same event obtained during the current season when such a performance exists as reported on the NCAA’s designated track and field results reporting system.

c. For an indoor season competition, up to and including the fourth Sunday in January, or an outdoor season competition, up to and including the fifth Sunday following the final day of the NCAA Indoor Championships, when verifiable entry performance for an event obtained during the current season is not available, the verifiable entry performance shall be from the

just previous season in which the event is contested.

d. All entries having no verifiable performance as stated above shall be entered with a performance of ‘no mark’.

Note 1: Competitors in their initial year of NCAA eligibility shall be entered with a ‘no mark’ performance until a verifiable current season performance is established.

Note 2: A verifiable performance shall only be those that have been published online as part of the NCAA’s designated track and field results reporting system.

Note 3: Relay performance marks shall reflect an institution’s best verifiable performance.

I guess another point worth noting is this is an NCAA rule that impacts all three divisions. Most people keep mentioning the timing of large D1 meets. The vast majority of the meets around the country are smaller, with less depth in each field. Also, the vast majority of athletes this rule impacts are not D1 athletes from big budget programs; they are mid major or below D1s, D2 and D3 athletes.

I think when the committee drafted this rule they were only thinking about major invites. They weren't thinking about all the athletes the rule impacts. They clearly didn't realize or care the new rule has little to no impact on short sprinters, hurlers, jumpers and throwers.

An adjustment to the new rule everyone should be in favor of would be to allow freshmen (and transfers) in the 200, 400, 800, mile, and 5k to use their indoor times at the start of outdoor, eliminating the requirement for no mark in those events (including a mile to 1500 conversion).

4th. Sunday in January is January 22. Many programs are on winter break from December 18 to January 16 or so. Times recorded the previous year cannot be used for seeding purposes after January 22.

The 5th. Sunday after NCAA indoors is April 9 - before MT. SAC. Times recorded the preceding year cannot be used after April 9.

Oh my god! You are correct.

Everyone has been assuming this meant the weekend of 1/28-1/29. But you are right. Even more insanity. This takes another weekend away from everyone with zero meets on the 12/31-1/1 weekend.

Several meets are already accepting entries and DirectAthletics is allowing speculative marks. We were told they would not even be able to be entered. This is an absolute disaster.

This means some schools that come back later and can't / don't (countable weeks have already been calculated) may have ZERO competitions in January if they don't start classes until 1/23.

any other coaches been hearing any chatter about this? first NCAA meets are coming up next weekend, and I know the meet info I've received for our team's first meet currently states that "speculative marks are accepted". this rule came upon us so quickly!

Rule only states that tffrs marks must be posted. Meet director can still seed the meet any way they want.

As I read this it create these 3 major problems

A) If you have an athlete who red-shirted an outdoor or indoor season, the next indoor or outdoor season they compete in they will be an NT entry even if they are a NCAA All-American.

B) A first year athlete will have to be entered at NT both at the beginning of indoor and outdoor. If a student - athlete runs 48.00 in their first indoor season they get to open up the outdoor season in the NT heat.

C) A coach who likes to train their athletes in off events say an 800m runner who will run the 500 / 600 or 1000 iduring the indoor season they will end up having to run each multiple weeks in the NT sections.

Simple solutions - a 365 day look back period with indoor / outdoor carry over and a first year athlete can you use a verifiable HS meet time from their senior year until a college meet perfomance has been recorded during their first competitive season. All county / class / state meets are found on DA/TFFRS. Those first year athlete entries must be accompanied by a message in the note field that documents meet, date, and location of verified HS performance.

Simler solution - don't tell people how to run their meets during the season. Don't force stupid rules on every single meet.

Lets ask a very simply question - how did this rule get passed?

Originally, the CEO of the coaches association said the coaches voted for it. Then no one can provide the minutes of the meeting to show that it was actually voted on. None of my coaching friends can remember voting on it.

Chair of the track & field rules committee from Indiana State has an agenda to get track & field "defined". Has been pushing this type of rule for years. He says CEO told the rule committee that the coaches wanted this rule. CEO says the rules committee came to him and wanted the rule.

Anyone smell poop? CEO and rules committee chair point fingers at each other.

Both need to be relieved of duties for trying an end run around coaches.

And we have this poor rule left to deal with.

Coaches who are attending the USTFCCCA convention - ask questions on what your leader is doing. If you are not involved in sport things like this happen.

If they can't produce minutes and beyond that that who made the motion to vote on the rule, who seconded the motion, and finally what the vote count was, then the rule is null and void. Member institutions would be within their right to ignore the rule as it does not have validated documentation. Funny almost like the entries they want to do away with...

Where are the rules posted? There seems to be non consensus on how the rules effect open athletes or even if any of this isn't legit or not.

Where are the rules posted? There seems to be non consensus on how the rules effect open athletes or even if any of this isn't legit or not.

Rule is written in 2017 NCAA T&F rule book

An article was written in NCAA News back in June.

Yet there are people still asking "where are the rules posted?"

Yet just in the last 2 weeks have people decided to read and think about their own profession.

Fan of the sport wrote:

Rule only states that tffrs marks must be posted. Meet director can still seed the meet any way they want.

The rule is posted, with clarifications, here (page 4)...

Although you are correct in that THIS rule does not specify how to seed meets, that rule already exists in the NCAA rulebook. Below is a small excerpt from the rulebook on how you are required to seed a meet...

Regulations for Forming Heats:

ARTICLE 2 The heats in running events shall be formed according to the following regulations, unless extraordinary circumstances exist, including facility or scheduling conditions, which require alteration by the games committee: a) The declared competitors shall be assigned to first-round heats in the order their names are listed on the ranked performance list, working alternately from left to right and right to left.

Why are so many people saying TFFR? It's TFFRS, CMON now

Atomic Party Chair wrote:

There are multiple problems with this rule.

The first is that there is no reason times can't and shouldn't be used from at least one year prior to enter people into meets. What if a kid is injured or sick in the first 4 weeks of the season? Then they have no mark to use for the rest of the season according to these new rules.

Isn't that appropriate, though? If your kid's been sick for 4 weeks, he's likely to stink up the fast heat if you put him in there.

Using times from the previous TWO years should be allowable.

Two years is way too long.

If someone is injured one year, they have no marks.

Right.

If they have a time from two years ago that gets them into a heat, why shouldn't that be used?

Because he's been injured for a year.

Two years is enough time to put on 40 lbs, lose it, then gain it again. This rule means the meet director is obliged not to take you at your word that your runner is in shape.