Disappointed at NYC Marathon--Should I go back-to-back?

Leaving now for Maryland and the NCR. Will see you there...

outsiderunner wrote:

Leaving now for Maryland and the NCR. Will see you there...

...but no one will see you, you have learned well gwasshoppa.

David S. Pumpkins wrote:

..

outsiderunner wrote:

Actually, as I have said in this thread, I love a M, W, F, Sat. "40" week. I love to run, but having days off really helps me.

If you're now claiming you ran 5-7 days a week for 24 weeks at roughly 7:00 pace for 50-77 mpw, and couldn't break 3 hours, you choked harder than I thought.

Also I'll challenge your "days off really helps me." Helps you with what? Feel fresh for your MP 23 milers? Let's you bang out 7:00 runs all the time? Those days off aren't helping you break 3:00...

Phrased another way: you are structuring your training in a way that ensures that you perform very well in training, and less so in racing. But isn't the point of training to ensure that you perform well when racing?

still wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

Just got back from a little six-miler, after resting yesterday, trying to get rid of this cold. My breathing was much improved over Tuesday, not quite perfect, but clearly improved. Overall, I felt great in this run and was so happy to be out on my rollers. I went 6.33 miles, at an overall 7:03 pace. My splits were...

7:29, 7:11, 7:21, 7:00, 7:00, 6:31

Translation: "I haven't listened to any of this and am still banging out MP runs"

...TWO DAYS BEFORE A FREAKIN MARATHON. INSANITY.

I hope he does well at NCR and gets his sub-3, however I'm starting to think another big bonk would be best in the long run, otherwise he might never see the light.

angryjohnny wrote:

still wrote:

Translation: "I haven't listened to any of this and am still banging out MP runs"

...TWO DAYS BEFORE A FREAKIN MARATHON. INSANITY.

I hope he does well at NCR and gets his sub-3, however I'm starting to think another big bonk would be best in the long run, otherwise he might never see the light.

What do you think the odds are of total FAILURE to maintain 7:03 pace in this next marathon race?

What are the odds of another marathon race debacle?

rjm33 wrote:

angryjohnny wrote:

...TWO DAYS BEFORE A FREAKIN MARATHON. INSANITY.

I hope he does well at NCR and gets his sub-3, however I'm starting to think another big bonk would be best in the long run, otherwise he might never see the light.

What do you think the odds are of total FAILURE to maintain 7:03 pace in this next marathon race?

What are the odds of another marathon race debacle?

50:50....DNF

Giver of Odds wrote:

rjm33 wrote:

What do you think the odds are of total FAILURE to maintain 7:03 pace in this next marathon race?

What are the odds of another marathon race debacle?

50:50....DNF

No doubt he will finish. Remember he ran a race with sire abs once.

The course is much easier and the conditions much better, but with no proper buildup and NYC still in his legs I'm putting the over/under at 3:08. What do y'all think? Anybody willing to take the under?

I'll say 2:58:47. The guy is a MP machine.

Angryjohnny wrote:

The course is much easier and the conditions much better, but with no proper buildup and NYC still in his legs I'm putting the over/under at 3:08. What do y'all think? Anybody willing to take the under?

My prediction is that he complains about the wind.

Angryjohnny wrote:

The course is much easier and the conditions much better,

Isn't NCR on a dirt and stone trail? If you haven't trained on that surface it can take a bit of a toll.

Red Range wrote:

Angryjohnny wrote:

The course is much easier and the conditions much better, but with no proper buildup and NYC still in his legs I'm putting the over/under at 3:08. What do y'all think? Anybody willing to take the under?

My prediction is that he complains about the wind.

And his cold. He's been planning the excuses all week.

While his approach is mind-boggling, and some of his comments are a bit debatable, as a fellow runner who had a sub 3 goal for many years, I sincerely hope he gets it today and puts this whole story behind.

Outside of his training and crazy 22 miler, the real mistake was to choose NYC then complain about the logistics. Had he chosen Philly or other better, fair courses, he'd have gone sub 3 already.

NYCM is tough. I ran it 3 times, and it was rough everytime. Choosing a flatter, more reasonable course with fewer logistics concerns makes a world of difference.

7:30 Sounds right wrote:

While his approach is mind-boggling, and some of his comments are a bit debatable, as a fellow runner who had a sub 3 goal for many years, I sincerely hope he gets it today and puts this whole story behind.

Outside of his training and crazy 22 miler, the real mistake was to choose NYC then complain about the logistics. Had he chosen Philly or other better, fair courses, he'd have gone sub 3 already.

NYCM is tough. I ran it 3 times, and it was rough everytime. Choosing a flatter, more reasonable course with fewer logistics concerns makes a world of difference.

Exactly. He ran a better race in Richmond and wonders why. It's flatter and easier. That's why.

NCR wrote:

Angryjohnny wrote:

The course is much easier and the conditions much better,

Isn't NCR on a dirt and stone trail? If you haven't trained on that surface it can take a bit of a toll.

Good point. I had forgotten about that. I once did a track workout on a dirt track that had some small loose stone on the surface. My times were very slow compared to the Mondo track I am used to.

3:06...

I met outsiderunner at the race today. Nice enough guy. I don't want to spoil anything, so I'll let him tell you about his day when he decides to chime in (it's better than what most people on here are thinking). In case anyone is interested, I finished 5th overall in 3:00:11. Wound up passing 5 or 6 people after the halfway mark. Tantalizingly close to sub-3. I've broken that barrier 3 times before, so I'm happy with the time, just annoyed I couldn't find 15 seconds somewhere during the day.

Molkinsloth wrote:

I met outsiderunner at the race today. Nice enough guy. I don't want to spoil anything, so I'll let him tell you about his day when he decides to chime in (it's better than what most people on here are thinking). In case anyone is interested, I finished 5th overall in 3:00:11. Wound up passing 5 or 6 people after the halfway mark. Tantalizingly close to sub-3. I've broken that barrier 3 times before, so I'm happy with the time, just annoyed I couldn't find 15 seconds somewhere during the day.

He dropped you like a bad habit.

3:07:30...and 1:32:14 at the half split...but it is not the five minute positive split that it appears to be. According to the clock it is, but not according to what happened.

I was executing my plan well, and felt great at the half split. I really started rolling in the second half of the race, clicking off some nice splits. I passed quite a few people, and no one passed me. I get to mile 21, and was feeling very good, excited about a negative split and what seemed like a PR. Calves were a tad sore, but overall I felt very good, much, much better than at NYC. Sometime between mile 21 and 22 there was a road crossing with a policeman there directing things. It looked like the place where I would enter back onto the roads, making a right turn, and heading off the trail. I knew that right turn would be coming up. So, I turned right, and went off the trail. It was a wrong turn. I see two women walking toward me, and I asked if I were going the wrong way. They told told me "yes" and gave me directions back to the trail.

I was devasted. I hurried back, but the PR would be gone. I do not know how much time I lost, but I gather it was about four minutes. It seemed like an eternity. So, I ran a marathon+ today. My watch got really, really wacky in the second half of the race, and so I do not have a mileage estimate of how much extra I ran. It gave what seemed the be fairly accurate mile splits (i.e. 6:40s and some 6:30s on the way back), but would tell me that my current pace was like 10:00 or even 12:00...very strange. The same thing happened to another guy. Again, it seemed to get wacky only in the second half of the race...strange. I used the mile markers and timers, and ran by feel in the second half, knowing I was doing well.

I am glad that I still has something left in those last 4+ miles. Quitting crossed my mind, but I pressed on. It was so deflating to see all those people I had passed ahead of me.

I told the race director what happened, but, of course, there was nothing she could do (after the fact). There should have been a course marshal there with the police officer, or the police officer should have said something to me. Well, it is all split milk now.

I learned a lot in that race today, and am very happy I ran it, even though I ran a crummy 3:07. I learned how to run a marathon. I was controlled in the first half, and in position for a negative split. I learned how to do it.