Oficial NCAA XC Conference Weekend Friday Discussion Thread

Is it possible Wetmore peaked his athletes for PAC 12s because he knows they don't have a shot at the podium at NCAAs?

SaguaroWatch wrote:

OR must be quite disappointed with both teams finishing 4th.

However, most likely they were quite affected by the 85 deg heat so expect both teams to rebound at West Regionals & NCAAs.

Did everyone else run the race in cooler temps earlier in the morning? What a disadvantage for Oregon to run in the heat by themselves!

Re: CO women . . .after blowing away the field today . . . in what some coaches & others have said was the highest quality Pac-10/12 women's field ever . . . meaning one of the greatest college conference meets in history . . . now have to include them in the conversation with last year's NCAA-champ NM team, WA's 2008 NCAA champs which went 1-6 at Pac-10s, and CO's 2004 NCAA champs . . . as the greatest team in NCAA history.

SaguaroWatch wrote:

Re: CO women . . .after blowing away the field today . . . in what some coaches & others have said was the highest quality Pac-10/12 women's field ever . . . meaning one of the greatest college conference meets in history . . . now have to include them in the conversation with last year's NCAA-champ NM team, WA's 2008 NCAA champs which went 1-6 at Pac-10s, and CO's 2004 NCAA champs . . . as the greatest team in NCAA history.

New Mexico scores 49 at NCAAs, Colorado just scored 32 at a 12 team conference meet. I think one is still well ahead of the other. Washington 08 had their best performance of the year at PAC 10s. 1-6 with Oregon ranked #2 in the country at the time. That Oregon team had Hasay and Kosinski who were both top 10 at NCAAs that year.

interesting... wrote:

Is it possible Wetmore peaked his athletes for PAC 12s because he knows they don't have a shot at the podium at NCAAs?

doubtful. They "came out of nowhere" because Saarel and Dressel ran like they should be running. Perrin has been on the verge of a breakthrough like this for a while. Much more likely that they were underrated prior to this race because they didn't run well at pre-Nats.

This is team is a legit podium contender and darkhorse for the national title. I'd put money on that gap between their 4th and 5th guys tightening up over the next couple weeks.

Looks like Saarel is back close to top form. If he's top 10, Dressel and Perrin are all-americans, and their 4-5 guys improve a little that's a very good finish.

I didn't think either of them would really run xc at all for Stanford, and it wa slide just two weeks ago people were talking about how bad Aragon was after pre nats at xc, big change for sure; I also though Alex would do better, but Thomas is definitely the real deal, I think if had another race under him he would have done even better.

The team race at nationals is gonna be great, one guy here has a good day and another guy doesn't on either NAU, Stanford, or Colorado and anyone could win.

Stanford women as a team also did really well, might be the number two team in the country.

Ivy Leagah wrote:

I can't believe no one has mentioned Ratcliffe taking 8th place!

That's insane! A freshman, in his first real season of cross country, finishing that high at PAC 12s is incredibly impressive.

I'm not sure what you mean by "first real season of cross country." This his first season of cross-country, period. He played soccer in high school. The Stanford Invite was his first-ever XC race and he won it in 23:17 as an unattached runner (I think today was his first race in a Stanford uniform). If anything he was a little subpar today and it is no stretch to say he could be top 10 at Nationals.

SO I've been out a few hours.

Let me see if I understand this right. It was hot at Pac 12s so for some reason that's supposed to hurt Oregon worse than the all the other teams. Can someone please tell me why?

I know it's not hot in Oregon this time of year but does anyone think it's hot in Colorado this time of year? Or in Palo Alto.

Correct, It's been no warmer than 70-75 max in Palo Alto for about a month or more now

Rojo - it has been flipping hot in CO all October. It has been rediculus.

messi wrote:

SaguaroWatch wrote:

Re: Pac-12s, running in 85deg heat w/20% humidity, resulted in lots of bonking, both men & women . . . CO bonked the least.

So in those conditions why did AZ State bonk?

No, ASU did better today than they would have in cooler conditions. The same holds true for UCLA.

The heat got to McGorty and some others.

It was 88 at the start of the mens race and 90 at the end.

The sun was very hot and it had an impact on guys

Hmmmmmmmm wrote:

McGorty was the best distance runner on the track besides Ches last year and was top 10 in XC. I know at Wisconsin he pushed to hard too much early in the race and just didn't have a kick. I wonder what happened today. If he can get to where he should be at NCAAs, things will be interesting. I still think he could be top 5 (and thought 6-10 was a worst case scenario) but now he could also finish 10-20 spots back from Fisher and that's not good.

Heat got to him

Heat affected both Pac-12 races today . . . just look at the times . . . only Ches under 24, no woman close to breaking 20 . . . on a flat course with a few "ripples" . . .they all ran conservative yet many bonked, a few even DNF'd.

For reasons no one has yet figured out, some runners do just fine in hot weather, others just can't take it . . . look no further than this past summer's men's 10k Oly Trials race . . . Rupp/OR ran fine, True from Maine/New Hampshire did not, Mead/OR & Lagat/AZ dropped out, etc.

So, comments about OR underperforming due to heat-related issues is not a criticism, just a reasonable explanation . . . for whatever reason, OR seemed to have had fewer heat-acclimatized runners than the other top schools . . . Stanford was certainly affected, as Keelan & Wharton are definitely not the team's #8 & #9 runners . . . note that even CO might have been affected as one of their top women finished far lower than expected.

Expect a return to the norm . . . meaning how individual runners "normally" finish in relation to each other in "normal" fall weather . . . at regionals in a couple weeks.

With respect to the heat, isn't McGorty a "bigger" runner, like True? Those types of runners tend to fair worse in the heat.

Additionally, if Colorado made a move at the end, or faded less than the other teams faded because of the heat, could that be related to how they run (especially at NCs) when they come down from altitude by going out more conservatively. If Colorado was relatively fresher towards the end, would the effects of the heat affect them less than other teams that went out harder? Are the effects of heat compounding in such a situation?

Also, while certainly Oregon can't be the only team to claim heat as an excuse or explanation, did UCLA benefit from it?

Baptism of Fire wrote:

Jonathan Gault wrote:

Do you only follow the sport from September -- November? Look at how Oregon's guys do on the track and you have your answer.

So you're saying the culture at Oregon breeds soft runners? Very fast in track when the fields are small and the surface is perfect. Is this what happens when you get all the big recruits? They get babied?

Marty Liquori said this in the 70s.

Hmmmmmmm wrote:

SaguaroWatch wrote:

Re: CO women . . .after blowing away the field today . . . in what some coaches & others have said was the highest quality Pac-10/12 women's field ever . . . meaning one of the greatest college conference meets in history . . . now have to include them in the conversation with last year's NCAA-champ NM team, WA's 2008 NCAA champs which went 1-6 at Pac-10s, and CO's 2004 NCAA champs . . . as the greatest team in NCAA history.

New Mexico scores 49 at NCAAs, Colorado just scored 32 at a 12 team conference meet. I think one is still well ahead of the other. Washington 08 had their best performance of the year at PAC 10s. 1-6 with Oregon ranked #2 in the country at the time. That Oregon team had Hasay and Kosinski who were both top 10 at NCAAs that year.

The 08 Oregon team had NICOLE BLOOD and kosinski, who had finished 8-10 at NCAA's the year prior and I believe 8-12 at NCAA's that year. Hasay was still a senior in HS. The following year ('09) at pac-10's, Hasay was 3rd as a true soph and Blood actually ran down Kendra Schaef late in the race to take the title

If the Colorado men have never lost, why would this be an upset?

The polls and pontification of who may win really means nothing on race day as we see once again her with Colorado.

Andy can't coach xc--otherwise he'd be able to bunch up a lot of guys somewhere behind Cheserek (not with him, of course). That is the difference with Colorado, which always finds a way to get low and high profile recruits (ranging from Saarel and Dressel to Perrin, Forsyth(?), and Klecker) to run together in training and races. However, Andy can coach the mile, 1500m, 3k, and 5000m. Oregon has been outstanding in developing tons of sub 3:40 guys and plenty of sub 13:40 guys as well. They'll always get recruits because Oregon has the reputation from the movies and real life and because there is no better place to set yourself up for a pro career and a job with shoe companies, especially one with close ties to the Ducks.

How long until Tamagno's parents request a private coach?