He's the kind of guy that needs a change in stimulus in order to improve.
If he's not improving from his " hard days ", why is he still training that way.
If someone is running at the same level 3 years later, then what he's doing is wrong.
He's the kind of guy that needs a change in stimulus in order to improve.
If he's not improving from his " hard days ", why is he still training that way.
If someone is running at the same level 3 years later, then what he's doing is wrong.
has anyone done this? wrote:
we do 3 quality speed days (400s, 800s, 1000s) 1 long run (12 miles) and one tempo run a week and the rest are filled in by 2 easy runs each day. I have him run with our 16 min guys for the 400s 800s 1600s bc i want him to improve
Just to clarify, he has 3 hard speed workouts PLUS a tempo run PLUS a long run and finally easy doubles on the remaining days? PLUS meets?
I have a theory too wrote:
has anyone done this? wrote:we do 3 quality speed days (400s, 800s, 1000s) 1 long run (12 miles) and one tempo run a week and the rest are filled in by 2 easy runs each day. I have him run with our 16 min guys for the 400s 800s 1600s bc i want him to improve
Just to clarify, he has 3 hard speed workouts PLUS a tempo run PLUS a long run and finally easy doubles on the remaining days? PLUS meets?
Hahaha
He's peaked and/or he's lazy.
Some kids are like that.
Just because you force him to run easy runs faster will not make him a faster racer.
You race with your heart that's how you improve.
Coach you need to work on motivation and desire. Running your so called "good fast days" and 12 mile long runs (by the way that is too long for HS kids) is not enough.
I also think you really aren't much of a coach.
I have a theory too wrote:
has anyone done this? wrote:we do 3 quality speed days (400s, 800s, 1000s) 1 long run (12 miles) and one tempo run a week and the rest are filled in by 2 easy runs each day. I have him run with our 16 min guys for the 400s 800s 1600s bc i want him to improve
Just to clarify, he has 3 hard speed workouts PLUS a tempo run PLUS a long run and finally easy doubles on the remaining days? PLUS meets?
No! On meet weeks we have them do no doubles on the one day they have an easy run (The day before the meet)
I'll rephrase the question without the meets:
He has 3 hard speed workouts PLUS a tempo run PLUS a long run and finally easy doubles on the remaining days?
Well of course, we have 2 guys in the low 16s, the kid i mentioned, a kid in the 18s and a kid in the 21s, we go to a fairly small school, 1500 kids.
has anyone done this? wrote:
I have a theory too wrote:Just to clarify, he has 3 hard speed workouts PLUS a tempo run PLUS a long run and finally easy doubles on the remaining days? PLUS meets?
No! On meet weeks we have them do no doubles on the one day they have an easy run (The day before the meet)
If the kid says he "can't" run faster on the easy runs, have to ask what he is really saying given the quality in his training. Is he recovering adequately? Is he verging on overtraining? Also have to wonder a bit about his off season prep in advance of this level of work. How confident are you that he put in all the miles?
Ok, good trolling
8/10
I see. IMO the three hard session plus the tempo and long are pushing him outside of what he can handle. My inclination is to change the 3 hard sessions to 1 hard session and 2 easy runs for a while and see if this grants him some breathing room.
Others may have a different opinion.
I have a theory too wrote:
has anyone done this? wrote:we do 3 quality speed days (400s, 800s, 1000s) 1 long run (12 miles) and one tempo run a week and the rest are filled in by 2 easy runs each day. I have him run with our 16 min guys for the 400s 800s 1600s bc i want him to improve
Just to clarify, he has 3 hard speed workouts PLUS a tempo run PLUS a long run and finally easy doubles on the remaining days? PLUS meets?
Yeah, good lord... That's waaaaaay too many workouts.
I have a theory too wrote:
I see. IMO the three hard session plus the tempo and long are pushing him outside of what he can handle. My inclination is to change the 3 hard sessions to 1 hard session and 2 easy runs for a while and see if this grants him some breathing room.
Others may have a different opinion.
Yes, if over 3 years he's actually getting slower at 5k, why are you still training that way.
Buy a Garmin and heart rate band and train at a % of heart rate. No intervals.
Or read the letsrun JK thread.
Or read Tom Schwartz ( Tinman ) stuff.
Or stop trolling.
To answer your question plainly, YES HE IS GOING WAY TO SLOW. His heart rate is probably 5-15bpm higher than if he was just sitting in a chair. If he is really worried that he isn't gaining fitness, tell him to not waste 60+ minutes a day walking his easy mileage. "Easy" doesn't mean that he shouldn't feel like he just ran at the end of the session. Ya, on some days he needs to go slow; really slow. But really slow for a 17low XC runner is 8flat pace at a minimum. If he says he can't go any faster, then he is just the world's best racer.
I had a high school kid run 4:13 in the 1600. On his easy days he would run almost 8:30-9:00 pace with some of his slower teammates. He was averaging about 50 miles a week by senior year. He's now run 3:43 for 1500 in college. For some people it works, but I don't think that works for everyone.
Look fam. Your boy is running too slow. I've seen guys who have sweet PRs, but run slow, but they also make up for it with a fast long run and faster workouts. Easy days are not just for recovering from workouts and races; you should also be gaining some type of fitness. His fitness has not improved over multiple seasons. I definitely don't think that this is the sole or even major reason for his stagnation. Check his iron and sleep patterns bro.
To run fast, run fast. To work on aerobic endurance, run easy to moderate. To recover, jog or nap. It's not that complicated. The kid is clearly running too slow. That's almost walking. No way you can maintain good form going that slow. Running that slow all the time will make you slow. Rant over.
He can run that on his easy runs and still improve. It will take double the mileage and more workouts. Yes I said double the mileage and more workouts. If he was doing a hundred miles a week and four workouts that would justify his super slow jogging. The alternative is running those easy days much faster like 6:30-7 min per mile and keep it at 50 for now and move up 60-70 by track season.
so should i add a 4th workout
That pace might be fine for recovery runs the day after a really hard run where is body is beat but for general easy runs, he should be around 8 minutes. Easy doesn't mean walking, it means easy and 8 minute pace is easy for a 17 minute 5ker
he says if he runs at an easy pace it feels "like a tempo run" and ends up running 6 flat pace...