Can Kamworwor beat Mo.

Altered reality wrote:

Pre Eugene OR 2011-06-03: 10000 m: 26:46.57 (1) VS 26:52.84 (6)

Oh... Farah wining a fast 10k over sihine?

You are mad to consider Farah's performances before 2011 as a significant part of his career. Farah has rarely lost a race since the WC 10k 2011. Don't make up rubbish.

hard to compare the two as Sihine's peak years were well before 2011 just like Farah's are after 2011.

Tron wrote:

Altered reality wrote:

Pre Eugene OR 2011-06-03: 10000 m: 26:46.57 (1) VS 26:52.84 (6)

Oh... Farah wining a fast 10k over sihine?

You are mad to consider Farah's performances before 2011 as a significant part of his career. Farah has rarely lost a race since the WC 10k 2011. Don't make up rubbish.

hard to compare the two as Sihine's peak years were well before 2011 just like Farah's are after 2011.

Just sayin...

Sihine - 26:39

Rupp - 26:44

Farah - 26:46

eh ??

only if you don't analyse properly

& mo is no bum at 1/2M either with a 59'22pb & expected to be in better shape in cardiff which was 1st time he had trained specifically for a 1/2M & got slaughtered

is this a joke ???

since '11, mo is only 4rd fastest with 26'46 behind rupp at 26'44 & some 3rd string kenyan in rotich in 26'43 with kennster just ahead at 26'43

these 3 guys were never going to beat mo in their shape in those races v mo of '11 - '16

this just shows 26'46 is nonsense pb for mo, even moreso when rotich, a guy who coudn't even make a kenyan team for 10k ran 26'43 off slow 5k split & brutal last mile which frightened kennster to death & who just managed to outsprint him at the end

that wouda been an ~ 26'35 run without that pedestrian 5k split & flat-out from gun

if this 3rd string kenyan who had moved to 1/2M by '11 with a 59'44pb then just gave it a shot in brussels coming in with a 27'12pb in the race which mo won in 26'46, then you can damn well expect the top kenyan 10k guys wouda made mincemeat of 26'43 or "converted" 26'35 if given brussels conditions

is this a joke ???

the copenhagen winner wasn't good enough to make kenyan team in cardiff & ran 59-flat/low starting off with 13'32 !!!, which is 27'04 pace !!! & still kept it going to 10k with 27'15 !!!

tadesse, the 1/2M wr holder & also a nominal 26'37 guy only split 27'53 !!! in his 58'23 !!

anyone with a clue about the sport woud realise that this kenyan wouda run hugely < 27 on the track that day

when 100% fit & flat-out from gun with team-help to at least 5k

in '15 he lost in eugene with back injury & not flat out

in peking, the kenyans didn't run flat-out from gun, but jogged 1st mile & the 2 others woudn't help Kamwo with pace & he made most of it himself

in '16 he dnf'ed in trials with injury & in rio still clearly not recovered as letsrun reporter in kenya mentioned few weeks ago

let's see his ability when 100% fit & the team take it flat-out from gun pacing him to at least 5k

Nothing scares Kennster.

Nothing. 😡

Where the hell is rjm? I need back up.

tony the tiger wrote:lmao no way in hell Bekele is going to take Mo down in his home town in front of his own crowd in a World championship 10k race, no way in hell .. u can take this statement to the bank, buds!

i beg to differ

that 2"03-flat with huge kick & stoopid opening 1/2-way indicated a 2"02-mid at even-pace

that indicated current 10k of

~ 26'20

off M training !!!

kennster in berlin was very near his 10k wr shape off M training !!!

last few years of major periods of enforced rest have rejuvenated him & he is "fresh" again + years of inbuilt endurance already

if he specifically trained for 10k next year, he undoubtedly woud be in wr shape which he nearly is in currently

Not sure what your saying here, where in the world did you get 26:20 from? Bekele was great, but you can't compare a marathon to a 10k, they are different races.

I do get the feeling mos defeat will come In the form of some 18-20 year old Kenyan or Ethopian who has a breakout race and outkicks mo, the person who will be rhe worlds best once Mo is gone has yet to show themselfs. Maybe Kelechja?

doot doot wrote:

Tron wrote:

hard to compare the two as Sihine's peak years were well before 2011 just like Farah's are after 2011.

Just sayin...

Sihine - 26:39

Rupp - 26:44

Farah - 26:46

Oh, I'm not saying that Sihine isn't better...just that they never raced head-to-head in their primes

doot doot wrote:No Kenyan is capable of running 26:35 right now. Not even Kamworor on a perfect day.

no

the reason people believe this is because 10k is extinct on circuit bar windy eugene, where the conditions probably cost 1/2 dozen - dozen secs from wind

this shoud change when the "wide-open" stadium is built-up for it's WC hosting, making it much more enclosed & far less windy

brussels was major 10k place to chase clock in recent years with usually temperate weather & usually little wind from better enclosure, but brussels has pulled the 10k

here is what Kamwo can get some comparison to :

consider 3 kenyans of past 20y :

Tergat - 26'27

Kemboi - 26'30

rotich - 26'43

- Tergat ran wr & still kenyan record of 26'27 :

here is some brief highlights :

~ "slow, inconsistent pace early on...WR looked impossible..."

more remarkable than 13'17.5 ( 26'35 pace ) & 13.10.4 ( 26'20.8 pace ) is last 3k :

he ran

7'50.1 !!!

& speeding up with 59.5 last lap

that is

26'07 !!! pace

at even-pace from gun that day, Tergat wouda been looking at

~ 26'15 - 26'20

- Kemboi :

he was 19y !!!

not eligible for junior wr as he was 20y by 1/1/04

canova trained him for that race ( where he coudn't overhaul geb who chickened out of a wr attempt as coudn't break kenyan & settled to try to outsprint him )

canova said on board he'd only managed a few weeks of good training for this run as injured before & canova wasn't too ambitious on his boy chasing a quick time, but he still ran 26'30 !!!

even more impressive was that the last 600 was run in ~ 1'23 which is 55+ pace for 600m !!!

Kemboi, albeit loser that day, just off that brutal last 600 was worth < 26'25 evening pace out for just 9400 / 600

even-out all 25 laps & he wouda been looking at

~ 26'20

& he was just raw kid at time, but injuries finished him as canova bemoaned

here is brief vid of race :

- rotich

3rd string kenyan who ran 27'12pb in eugene where mo won in 26'46 early in year

never close to a 10k kenyan team

turned up brussels -'11 & off slow, unambitious, frankly rubbish request of 13'25 scheduled pacing, off that slow rubbish to 5k, pushed hard late on & blasted last mile terrifying kennster who just outsprinted him !!!

this 3rd string kenyan bum couda gone

~ 26'35

if fast from gun

unfortunately all vids of this recent race now gone !!??

we all saw it

it was rupp's 26'48 race !

here is report :

from 13'26 at 5k which is already 26'52 pace, it continued just as slow until last 1k where they whipped 26'52 pace to finish of 26'43 !!!

quite clearly rotich capable of ~ 26'35 if flat-out from gun

bottom line :

Kamwo is at very very worst as good as a 19y ole kid in Kemboi, far far superior to a rotich & probably just as good/better than a peak Tergat

26'35 woud be a joke time for him if he'd run a 10k in brussels in '11 conditions in his cardiff shape of earlier this year

Tron wrote:

doot doot wrote:

Just sayin...

Sihine - 26:39

Rupp - 26:44

Farah - 26:46

Oh, I'm not saying that Sihine isn't better...just that they never raced head-to-head in their primes

Yeah I knew what you meant. I just quoted you with the stat.

I'd take prime Sihine over Mo, anyway. Gritty racer who just didn't quite have Bekele's finish.

When Bekele, Kipchoge, or even Kipsang maybe two or all of em are in marathon with Mo and start turning the screws and start moving away down the road off into the distance and he has no answer lol

One of Kenyans half marathoners has to bee able to do something, who is it who ran that 59:22 off a 13:32 first 5k and 27:15 10k? he should be capable of some crazy 10k flat out, at least something in the 26:40 range.

Gonna be a Ugandan by the name of Joshua Cheptigi(last name probably not spelled right)

Found him, James Ndirangu Mwangi ran a 59:07 half marathon of a 27:15 first 10k, the 11th fastest road 10k ever, less then halfway into the race. Put that on a track and it drops to around a 27:05, then going all out a a time trails should be 26:40s, if not 26:30. If he keyans take him to the track next year and set a blistering pace he could have the endurance to win

doot doot wrote:

Tron wrote:

hard to compare the two as Sihine's peak years were well before 2011 just like Farah's are after 2011.

Just sayin...

Sihine - 26:39

Rupp - 26:44

Farah - 26:46

Egg-zactaly. Sihine at his peak was better than Farah at his peak. He may have fewer medals, but he also had to race peak Bekele which Farah doesn't, except at marathons.

Trackbot proves I'm right, Sihine slightly better on the PGOAT list.

Mo is nothing compared to Bekele and Gebrasallsie. I could see farah at 12:46 and 26:36 at best.

Exactly, look what Geb did in the 1997 Athens WC 10 000m final against the likes of Hissou, Tergt, Koech....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ7TG98gpyQ

Picture Mo doing that..?!

Slow pace wrote:

I think 2017 is the year Kenya finally gets their act together with Kamworor, who defends his world cross country title and then beats Mo by actually pushing the pace to sub 26:45 territory. They way to beat him seems to be to get the pace to be. Consistent and hard with no let up to let him save up, getting rid of his advantage in the last mile, if he still wins then he would have earned it by working hard instead of everyone letting things be in his hands.

Kamworor is very tough and conditioned. But the way he moves is inferior to Mo. Mo is very fluid and flexible. Kamworor is too stiff, he limits his range of motion which contributes to fatigue. Anyone remember the concept called "checking out"? Mo checks out occasionally during a race, which helps prevent the type of fatigue buildup we see in Kamworor.

Autologous Madness wrote:

Exactly, look what Geb did in the 1997 Athens WC 10 000m final against the likes of Hissou, Tergt, Koech....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ7TG98gpyQ

Picture Mo doing that..?!

He beat 3 runners who all had better PB than Farah.

Kamworwor would have to use cross country tactics of going straight to the front and pushing and dropping everyone early. Like what Zola Budd did in 1986, except on the track. That is how you beat mo. I do think a lot more people would be running 26:40s, 26:30s, and maybe even 26:20s if the circuit provided more chances to race this, like Brussels. Also something I have noticed, I wonder if people rely on pacemakers to much now. When you watch Daniel Komen or Haile Gebrselassie they have great pacemakers going on or faster than world record pace for a significant portion of the race. The circuit did have better pacing then, maybe because their was more money their because of how often records were being broken. But if you watch Bekele's 5k world record, he only had pace making for 2k, and they went slower than asked. To run fast in 5k to the level to get in the 12:45 range, you have to run the first 3k in under 7:40, but now any athlete that can do that is racing. So you have pace makers who aren't very fast and take them through 3k in 7:40's high or even 7:50s. Ruth Chebet's performance when she ignored the second pacemaker and raced on her own proves my point, pace makers are sticking around in races to long because athletes have been relying on them to much. The athletes relay to much on them, so instead pf getting pace through 2k in sub 5:10 which the pacers can do, they get paced through 3k, and people are going to slow. Pace makers are being asked to do what they can't do, and the athletes aren't delivering fast times because they stick with the pacemakers instead of running their own race. The problem is there are no pacers at the moment that can go that fast through the distance the organizers want, so they ask for them to run the same distance at a slower pace instead of run a shorter distance at the pace that would deliver fast times.